Hammerschlag / Fried Fox Opening

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beathoven
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:18 pm

Hammerschlag / Fried Fox Opening

Post by beathoven » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:39 pm

Hello there,

I would like some study material for this opening, but there is very less known about it. The Hammerschlag goes like 1 F3 .... 2 KF2, but can be played as black too offcourse. I have played it regulary and it's in fact not a very bad opening. On this forum someone suggested that is was only usefull against -1200 players which I think is not true.

pro's and cons on this opening imho

+ with 1.. F3 your opponent thinks you're a newbie and tries the mate in 2
+ with 2.. KF2 your opponent thinks you're gone mad
+ this opening controls the center
+ the king is more active
+ it's more safe then you think it is
+ my chesscomputer's database tells me that it is a good kriegspiel move and a joke in real chess, but beats itself from a setup position playing it against a correct 1.D4 ... and 2.E4 ... center opening by white.

- it looks weird from the other side

Does anyone have more comments on this opening. Maybe there is a way to force mate but I haven't seen one except the times when I made a blunder after playing the opening. :P

rdarmi
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:39 pm

Post by rdarmi » Sat Oct 01, 2005 8:07 am

mmmmmmmmmmm,
maybe if u post the full line..........

beathoven
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:18 pm

Post by beathoven » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:18 am

This was my idea to test te opening on 'quality' putting a chesscomputer at work against itself. Just giving white a 'good' opening with full center control and black the so called 'joke' opening. Just to see how long black could play on. I expected a very easy win for white, but to my surprise white lost.

I opened for it with the moves 1.e4 1...f6, 2d4 2...Kf7 and watched the game further on. It was a long game, but the result was quite remarkable. I think you can call this opening safe and good if you know the strong and weak points.

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "2005.6.20"]
[Round ""]
[White "Chessmaster"]
[Black "Chessmaster"]
[TimeControl "300+3"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "oft "]

1.e4 1...f6
2.d4 2...Kf7
3.Nf3 3...e6
4.Bd3 4...d5
5.O-O 5...dxe4
6.Bxe4 6...g5
7.h3 7...h5
8.Be3 8...g4
9.d5 9...e5
10.Nh4 10...Ne7
11.Qd3 11...gxh3
12.g3 12...Bh6
13.Bxh6 13...Rxh6
14.Nd2 14...Na6
15.c3 15...Nc5
16.Qe3 16...Nxe4
17.Qxh6 17...Nxd2
18.Qh7+ 18...Ke8
19.Qxh5+ 19...Kd7
20.Rfd1 20...h2+
21.Kxh2 21...Ne4
22.Qg4+ 22...f5
23.Nxf5 23...Qg8
24.Qxe4 24...Qh7+
25.Kg1 25...Qxf5
26.Qh426...b6
27.Qa4+ 27...Kd6
28.Qb4+ 28...Kd7
29.Qb5+ 29...c6
30.Qa4 30...Kd6
31.dxc6+ 31...Kc7
32.Rd2 32...Nxc6
33.Rad1 33...Qf6
34.Qc4 34...Be6
35.Qe4 35...Rf8
36.b4 36...b5
37.a4 37...a6
38.axb5 38...axb5
39.Qd3 39...Bg4
40.Re1 40...Rh8
41.Re3 41...Qh6
42.Qe4 42...Qh2+
43.Kf1 43...Be6
44.Ke2 44...Bc4+
45.Kd1 45...Ra8
46.Red3 46...Bxd3
47.Qxd3 47...Qh1+
48.Ke2 48...Qh5+
49.Qf3 49...Qxf3+
50.Kxf3 50...Ra3
51.Rd3 51...Nxb4
52.Re3 52...Nc6
53.Kg4 53...Kd6
54.Rd3+ 54...Kc5
55.Kg5 55...Kc4
56.Rd6 56...Ra6
57.f4 57...exf4
58.gxf4 58...Kxc3
59.f5 59...b4
60.f6 60...Ra5+
61.Kf4 61...Ne5
62.Re6 62...Nd3+
63.Kg4 63...Ra1
64.Rc6+ 64...Kd4
65.Rb6 65...Rf1
66.Kg5 66...Kc4
67.Kg6 67...b3
68.Rb7 68...b2
69.Rxb2 69...Nxb2
70.Kg7 70...Nd3
71.f7 71...Nc5
72.f8=N 72...Kd5
73.Kg8 73...Ne6
74.Ng6 74...Ke4
75.Ne7 75...Ke5
76.Kh7 76...Rf7+
77.Kg6 77...Rxe7
78.Kh5 78...Rg7
79.Kh4 79...Nd4
80.Kh5 80...Kf4
81.Kh6 81...Nf5+
82.Kh5 82...Rg5#

0-1

beathoven
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:18 pm

Post by beathoven » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:55 pm

Dude, what could be the reason that I would made this list myself saying that I used a chesscomputer for it? I would be lying if I say I made up this movelist myself, I wish I had the error % of 0% in real life.

But as you wish, you found 4 errors, let's see..
27.Qb4+? (27.c4 much better)
I would like to know 'why' it's 'much' better and even more why Qb4+ is such a 'terrible' move.
28.c6???? (loses straight up to dxc6+, i think there is no way that computers would miss this.
That's because computers look ahead a couple of moves ;)

30...Kc7
31.a4 ...a5
32.rd2 ...ba6
33.Qb3 ...nxc6
34.ra1d1 ...rf8
35.rd7 ...Qxd7
36.rxd7 kxd7
37.Qxb6 ..
And then 29.Qa4, how cute, now tell us, you made this move yourself, right? just so you could justify 1...f6, come on admit it, you just love that opening so much you'd doctor up moves Smile (semi-joking)
Justify the 'very first' move on the 29th move? Most games are finished when they reach that amount of moves. Maybe I should go for option 1. in your final conclusion. ^_^

beathoven
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:18 pm

Post by beathoven » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:59 pm

Why did the person I quoted deleted his message?

jpettit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2001 11:55 am

Post by jpettit » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:45 pm

I'll admit it ... ... ... I've lost to this set-up before. :oops:

Of course, I'm not a great chess player. It was awfully embarrassing, though. But given the choice, I'd pick the Sicilian over the 'Fried Fox' anyday.

cohonas
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:23 pm

Post by cohonas » Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:09 am

beathoven wrote:Why did the person I quoted deleted his message?
I deleted my message because i copy and pasted the game into chessbase and for some reason it reads it wrong, thus making it a completely different game than the actual one and my comments was based on "the chessbase version" :)

1.f3 or 1...f6 (followed by king to f2 or f7) is fun to play in blitz games, but in corr. i think it is a loser.

Of course if you don't believe me challenge me and play that :)

Anyway the result of the game you posted (gone through it right this time)
is not a direct consequence of the opening rather than poor handeling of the white pieces, 7.h3?! is an un-necessary weakening and 8.Be3 is no beauty either and after 12.g3 black has practically equalized and they might as well have played the QG.

beathoven
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:18 pm

Post by beathoven » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:38 am

cohonas wrote:
beathoven wrote:Why did the person I quoted deleted his message?
I deleted my message because i copy and pasted the game into chessbase and for some reason it reads it wrong, thus making it a completely different game than the actual one and my comments was based on "the chessbase version" :)

1.f3 or 1...f6 (followed by king to f2 or f7) is fun to play in blitz games, but in corr. i think it is a loser.
Depends on who is handling the pieces. there are some weaknesses in the opening, but all openings have there + and - points. There isn't a way like the mate in 2 to blast this kind of opening away so if you practice a lot you can make it your own.

I play this a lot in Blitz just because it is new to much opponents and the most of them think they can find something like a mate in a couple of moves.
Of course if you don't believe me challenge me and play that :)
Oh, i don't know which rating you have. I have one of 1400 at the moment and I doubt If I could win with 'any' opening if you're rated a lot higher. So it's not a really good indicator :)
Anyway the result of the game you posted (gone through it right this time)
is not a direct consequence of the opening rather than poor handeling of the white pieces, 7.h3?! is an un-necessary weakening and 8.Be3 is no beauty either and after 12.g3 black has practically equalized and they might as well have played the QG.
what would be your alternative too 7.h3? :)

cohonas
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:23 pm

Post by cohonas » Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:09 pm

Depends on who is handling the pieces. there are some weaknesses in the opening, but all openings have there + and - points. There isn't a way like the mate in 2 to blast this kind of opening away so if you practice a lot you can make it your own.

I play this a lot in Blitz just because it is new to much opponents and the most of them think they can find something like a mate in a couple of moves.
Depends on who is handling the pieces? well i am sure Kasparov or Topalov could come up with some interesting ideas and even get a few good results with 1.f3 and 1...f6, but i was talking more in the lines (no pun intended) of a theoretical point of view in correlation with correspondence chess, where this weakening of the king position that early on will probably see very poor results.
what would be your alternative too 7.h3?
I would play Nc3 instead, Black is suffering from poor development and a weakly placed king, but this is where the computers sometimes have some major blind spots.

geebs
Uranium
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 4:34 pm

fried fox

Post by geebs » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:20 am

Hey, I've never heard of it before but why not put it to the test? Create an open match and I will play! :D

geebs

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

fried fox opening?!

Post by mic » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:30 pm

Try looking at C. Desmarais vs. Seres (2001-Budapest) Seres won//// good luck with this it might be worth exploring ...try everything. :) Mic
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

wulebgr
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:12 pm
Location: PNW USA
Contact:

Post by wulebgr » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:58 pm

Just for kicks, I played a couple Fried Fox blitz games this evening. This one shows how fast things can go bad for black:

[Event "rated blitz match"]
[Site "freechess.org"]
[Date "2005.10.10"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Wulebgr"]
[Black "gallileo"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A00"]
[WhiteElo "1575"]
[BlackElo "1450"]
[PlyCount "37"]
[EventDate "2005.??.??"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. f3 e5 2. Kf2 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e4 dxe4 5. Nxe4 Nxe4+ 6. fxe4 Qh4+ 7. g3 Qxe4
8. Bg2 Qd4+ 9. Kf1 Bg4 10. Ne2 Bxe2+ 11. Qxe2 Bc5 12. c3 Qd6 13. d4 Bb6 14.
Bxb7 O-O 15. Bxa8 exd4 16. Bf4 Qf6 17. Qe5 Qg6 18. Be4 Qg4 19. Qf5 {
gallileo resigns} 1-0
Wulebgr

“From a fish’s point of view, a wulebgr is a leech.”

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