A puzzler: can black win?

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sirthursday
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:31 am

A puzzler: can black win?

Post by sirthursday » Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:38 am

Here's one I made up myself, so don't laugh... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Black to move

There are two questions:

1) Does 1....Bb2+;2.Kb1 Ba2+ win?
2) Is 1....Bd4 a blunder (Does it lose or is there a better move?)

Have fun! :D :D

tellymetwise
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:48 pm

Post by tellymetwise » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:10 am

1... Bb2+ 2.Kb1 Ba2 wins, for white.
1... Bb2+ 2.Kb1 Rg3 is worth somewhat more.

1... Bd4 doesn't do to much harm to blacks position. ( 2.Qa3!)
1... Ba2 is more interresting
1... Bb4 is more interresting

sirthursday
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Post by sirthursday » Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:38 pm

I'm afraid you have that wrong...

tellymetwise
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Post by tellymetwise » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:49 pm

Don't worry, I'm not afraid 8)

keithstuart
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Post by keithstuart » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:54 pm

1...Bb2+ 2.Kb1 Ba2+ is bad for black giving white the advantage

1..Bd4 is not a blunder and leaves black in a winning position but there is a better move namely

1...Ba2

white losses his queen after this move and is forced to play Qxe6+ or be mated in 6 or fewer moves

sirthursday
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:31 am

Post by sirthursday » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:44 pm

For the first part, 1...Bb2+ 2. Kb1 Ba2+ Kxa2 doesn't help black at all. (well done keith).There is no way for black to give check so he must defend the now unguarded e6 square, but unlike above he is now a knight for two pawns down.

As far as I can see, 1... Bd4 is not a good move. Why? White can play 2.c4!. If black moves his d5 bishop, he loses the d4 bishop to Qxe6+. If he doesn't he loses the d5 bishop. So either way he loses material.
Correction: :oops: after 2...Bb2+ 3.Kb1 Be4+ 4.Bd3 black has a tempo to defend e6. Still, the threat of Qxe6 keeps black on his toes and the extra pawn on the queenside could come into play.

tellymetwise
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Post by tellymetwise » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:58 pm

congrats Keith, your through to the next round :D

keithstuart
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Post by keithstuart » Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:41 pm

tellymetwise wrote:congrats Keith, your through to the next round :D
Thanks :wink:

I Kind of disagree with his Bd4 being not agood move when i checked with chessbase it gives it a 5 point advantage which to me is a big advantage

tellymetwise
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Post by tellymetwise » Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:22 pm

1... Bd4 2.c4 ??

Black to play and mate.
That certainly is much better then your 5 points advantage Keith.

Personally I favour Bb4. blocking entry from the white Queen on a3, blocking the White Kings entry on d2, threathening Qa1#

White's pieces all seem have a private meating how to continue without their cornered King. :twisted:

1... Ba2 is more themed on Bb2+. But comes to mind first when you see this Bb2+ Kb1 Ba2+ line.

tellymetwise
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 3:48 pm

Post by tellymetwise » Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:36 pm

Thirsday, don't mind that we not only chew on the chess problem. Keep trying and learn where you made your mistakes.
If we start chewing you more then the puzzle, that's when you missed a (big) step

By the way, what made you think of playing 1... Bd4?
Winning a pawn after Rxc2? (2... Rxc2+ 3.Kxc2 Bxf1 ?)

keithstuart
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Post by keithstuart » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:52 am

the 5 points advantage was after the 1...Bd4 move not allowing for any move by white so obviously if white played a bad move the points advantage would be greater or listed as mate in 8 or lower

sirthursday
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Post by sirthursday » Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:29 am

I was mainly to make the rook move. I came up with the position when I was playing a game against myself to test an opening (1.e4 c6 2.e5 d5 3.f4).

When I was doing it, my goal was to win the pawn on g2. By attacking the rook I hoped to overwhelm the defenses by forcing the g1 rook away. I did see that I could win a pawn with Rxc1, but at the time I prefered Rxf1, which would give black a 3-2 attack on g2. I have since noticed that after Rxf1, ...Rgxf1 leaves white an exchange up, despite the fact that black can win back the g pawn.

Afterwards I noticed several other continuations and thought it might be a good problem, with a few minor adjustments (I moved black's king to c8 to make more interesting and added a pawn on f4 for no reason at all).

tellymetwise
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Post by tellymetwise » Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:23 pm

When I look at Bd4, I can only see that White can completely ignore it.
Unless Rxc2+. But even then white can safely play any other move and strengthen the position.

As I tried to describe the position of white earlier in a post, white's king is completely unprotected on the Queen side of the board with all his pieces jammed on the King side.
Not only that, your two bishops and queen and somewhat the f2 rook are all active towards the weak queen side.

That is one part of the overview you need to see and utilize.

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