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what is the best reply for black after 1-b4?

watch this:
1.b4 e5 2.Bc1b2 Bf8d6 3.c4 c6 4.Ng1f3 Qd8e7 5.c5 Bd6c7 6.e3 d5
1.b4 e5 2.Bc1b2 Bf8d6 3.c4 c6 4.c5 Bd6c7 5.d4 d6 6.dxe5 dxc5

the plan: e5 /Bd6/c6/Qe7 is a almost always working plan for black!
Easy to learn, not very much theory - just a simple but good line...

is it the b pawn that has to go on attack by itself?

the secret of orang utan is that you exchange a precious e-pawn of the opponent with a stupid b pawn of yourself.
The only trap of orang utan is that the bisshop Bb2 could take the pawn at g7 and then the rook at h8.

Otherwise orang utan is very good to put the b pawn in a suicidal press up position, noone can stop this pawn, because it is enforced by the bisshop Bf1, if you place the pawn at b5 that is. Also enforced by the other pawns at column A and C this b pawn will constantly be backed up.

Orang utan will open the white left flank and is suitable for minority attack: where your rook tries to break open a line for himself by attacking the opposing pawns with your own pawns.

What do you think of this oppinion?

tartakower play b5 n make black queenside troubles

Do you mean black's knight can't get out? only by doing two steps.

i means there is less n lack of choice n also slow develope for black queenside. advance pawn at b5 is also useful at mid-endgame.

has anybody of the "orang utan" fans read my post? I will not say my lines are good for a black win BUT: Orang Utan is easy to counter. there's no danger, no risk, just a positional advatage for BLACK.

You have two nicknames.

@katchum: Sorry, gysi was my first login. It must me two years old.

Wall Bill - Silvercat, Internet (2002.12.21) 2002
1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 f6 3.e4 Bxb4 4.Bc4 Ne7 5.Nf3 d5 6.exd5 Nxd5 7.Nh4 O-O
8.O-O h6 9.d4 Kh8 10.Ng6+ Kg8 11.Nxf8 Kxf8 12.dxe5 1-0

this line called tartakower gambit.

in other case:

1.b4 e5
2.Bb2 f6
3.e4 Bxb4
4.Bxe5 fxe5
5.Qh5+

gambit always right

Other than what Gregorgysi told us, there is no way to kill the b pawn!
This pawn is very leathal to the piece development on black's queen side, as i played many games at yahoo chess, I encountered many good position by using this b5 pawn.

If you use orang utan, black has no meaning for occupying the center, because you don't need the center, your f-side bisshop just defends your pawns, your c-side bisshop attacks the black center. The real battle is at queen side.
And with some conductory moves you get a firm attack on black's king side, while black struggles with the b pawn, and has lost all defence by occupying the center, ... , for nothing. Occupying the center has turned out to be a weak point for black.

I did not say Black would kill White's b pawn.
It is just of NO use if black plays like I posted. I just a loitering pawn. It does not disturb black, the pawn does not have the possibility to attack. If it proceeds to b5 the position is even better for black.

Don't forget that "my" line is not the only one to counter 1.b4.
I do not say that b4 is losing immediately, but it is always a good indication that an database says:
1...e5 makes 50.9%
1...d4 makes 52.5%
1...Nf6 makes 52.1% (I don't know why, because I don't understand the reason for 1...Nf6, but it is good enough to score)
1...e6 makes even 54.1%

If you compare that statistics with some answers to
1.e4
1....c5 makes 46.4%
1....e5 makes 44.7%
1...e6 makes 44.3%
etc.

That means you hand over the advantage of the first move to black.

These statistics do not prove, that "dubious" openings are useless. They only prove that in higher levels (IM,GM) they lose to much points.

If you (like me) play below IM those openings are good enough to score a lot of games.
I play 1.e4 e5 2.f4
or things like 1.e4 c5 2.a3!?

I know they are bad against much stronger players but my advantage is that I will almost against everyone be better prepared.

I used to play 1.b4 as a surprise opening, maybe once every 15-20 games or so. My enthusiasm for it greatly diminished, however, after seeing Gregorgysi's line here. Black isn't trying to refute the opening: he justs sets up a supported centre and plays his game from there. There's a slight lose of time but Black has no weaknesses. More importantly, I think, is that the position is not one that a 1.b4 player likes to play (as White, I find it very frustrating to play against). Perhaps the best compliment, though, is that I have adopted this line as my defence to 1.b4 and have scored very well with it

I must thank you, Gregorgysi, for bringing this line to my attention!


Jonathan

I played a real match against someone who is one of the best players in Belgium and I opened with the orang utan. It turned out that I was winning but I couldn't finish it, he really was that good. It ended in a draw.

Then we rematched I had black and I did the najdorf defence and I lost really hard, it means that he was better prepared in openings than I was. So orang utan sure is good as a surprise opening!

malaysianisme wrote:what is the best reply for black after 1-b4?

1.b4 d5 2.Bb2 Qd6 this is an interesting plan for black I think, it´s abit of the beaten track and its still very good.

malaysianisme wrote:what is the best reply for black after 1-b4?

I thought this was called the Polish. In any case, this opening is crap. The right way to play against it is 1...e5 2. Bb2 Bxb4 3. Bxe5 Nf6. Notice that Black is now a tempo ahead, thanks to White's long-winded bishop development. Black soon continues with ...Nc6 after which White must surrender either the two bishops or another tempo.

Against this, what? The very problematical advantage of an extra central pawn. White may perhaps be able to equalize with precise play. That's not my idea of a suitable objective with the White pieces.

Instead of 3. Bxe5, White can also try 3. f4, as played by pcmvr, a strong player on this site. I have faced him from the Black side of this in four games, in each case with a winning or nearly winning position after 3...Nf6!

Sorry if I (certainly) look like the nasty guy, but I've always believed 1. b4 is the Sokolski opening. At home we use to call "urang-utan" 1. g4 (!!? the comment is mine!), following Tarrasch's tranchant judgement "Only a monkey could start with that #@§*!". Anyway, I played 1. b4 some times and I always adopted an "English opening"-like strategy . It works quite well, even with opponent slightly stronger than me (100- 200 Elo points up). But gregor's approach is seductive! . (is that word right?).

Hi,

I think the Orangutan fan club, with their weird opening practices, should start a usergroup for themselves, rather than clutter up the General Forum.

Have a banana
Arsigen

I was playing out the Orangutang Opening that Mr. Gambit suggested:Wall Bill - Silvercat, Internet (2002.12.21) 2002
1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 f6 3.e4 Bxb4 4.Bc4 Ne7 5.Nf3 d5 6.exd5 Nxd5 7.Nh4 O-O
8.O-O h6 9.d4 Kh8 10.Ng6+ Kg8 11.Nxf8 Kxf8 12.dxe5 1-0

this line called tartakower gambit. and 8. h6 creates a huge weakness and when he moves the King to h8 the knight on h4 can fork the king and rook???? so either he copied it out of the book wrong or???? and as for that other guy who gave percentages of success rate he also copied it out of a website for openings that don't go very deep....I have played this gambit quite abit on this site and have been very successful.

Mic

mic wrote:I was playing out the Orangutang Opening that Mr. Gambit suggested:Wall Bill - Silvercat, Internet (2002.12.21) 2002
1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 f6 3.e4 Bxb4 4.Bc4 Ne7 5.Nf3 d5 6.exd5 Nxd5 7.Nh4 O-O
8.O-O h6 9.d4 Kh8 10.Ng6+ Kg8 11.Nxf8 Kxf8 12.dxe5 1-0

this line called tartakower gambit. and 8. h6 creates a huge weakness and when he moves the King to h8 the knight on h4 can fork the king and rook???? so either he copied it out of the book wrong or???? and as for that other guy who gave percentages of success rate he also copied it out of a website for openings that don't go very deep....I have played this gambit quite abit on this site and have been very successful.

After an analysis (at my low level and without books) of the “tartagambitâ€

malaysianisme wrote:what is the best reply for black after 1-b4?

Among a dozen of other good replies, try 1. …a5. This move has some advantages on its own:

1) if 2. ba5:, then 2. … Nc6! (more accurate than the immediate 2. …Ra5:), and then Black has an objective in the isolated white a-pawn placed on an open column. Prepare short castling and develop preferably the c8B to b7 after fixing the white a-pawn with R (or N)a5: and b6. The Rook take to a5 might also allow, in some not rare cases, a conversion of the Rook on the K’s side, where W also castled, with good attacking perspectives;
2) if 2. … b5, then try to build up a V- formation with the Q-side pawns (a5, b6, c7, d6, e5), placing Bb7 and Nc5 via d7, in order to put pressure on White’s e4, also by the pawn push to f5.

Other replies (2. c3 hinders the QN development, e.g.) do not give Black big opening problems.

This sort of play, that always implies the shortside castling and a precise attitude for pressure (and not occupation) of the center, has few risks, is amusing in the right amount and, above all, is quite “creativeâ€

malaysianisme wrote:what is the best reply for black after 1-b4?

Among a dozen of other good replies, try 1. …a5. This move has some advantages on its own:

1) if 2. ba5:, then 2. … Nc6! (more accurate than the immediate 2. …Ra5:), and then Black has an objective in the isolated white a-pawn placed on an open column. Prepare short castling and develop preferably the c8B to b7 after fixing the white a-pawn with R (or N)a5: and b6. The Rook take to a5 might also allow, in some not rare cases, a conversion of the Rook on the K’s side, where W also castled, with good attacking perspectives;
2) if 2. … b5, then try to build up a V- formation with the Q-side pawns (a5, b6, c7, d6, e5), placing Bb7 and Nc5 via d7, in order to put pressure on White’s e4, also by the pawn push to f5.

Other replies (2. c3 hinders the QN development, e.g.) do not give Black big opening problems.

This sort of play, that always implies the shortside castling and a precise attitude for pressure (and not occupation) of the center, has few risks, is amusing in the right amount and, above all, is quite “creativeâ€