"virtual" computer aid on slowchess?

dcroll · Post by **dcroll** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:46 pm

hi,

most (honest) chess servers don't allow any form of computer aid, may it be the use of databases or chess engines. i even found a german correspondence chess server which says "what we can't control, we allow" - and so they promote the use of computers as a help to play "beautiful" and "perfect" chess games.

well, i can do that too. my chess engine can calculate the next 50 possible moves - but my computer isn't proud of winning. he's a machine.

i'm concerned about "virtual" computer aid on slowchess.com. if player A plays a move against player B, is there any possibility to prevent B from playing the same move against a much stronger player C just to see what move B should play against his opponent A?

i'm calculating an example, using the swiss chess federation ELO system. A initially has 1500, B 1000 and C has ELO 2000. thanks to "helper" C, A loses against B. B loses against C because he has to play A's moves against him. the ratings change as follows: A -34.61, B +34.6 (because he lost 0.01 in the B-C game) and C +1.39. the losers of this game are A and C: A because he lost points against a weaker opponent and both A and C were betrayed about the real strength of their opponents.

because computers work accurately - they never miss a good move as human players do when being in a hurry - investigators can't find "perfect" games when hunting cheaters. in our example, C sometimes does bad moves when a computer wouldn't.

do you find this a serious threat to the chess community? i'd like to hear your thoughts

greetings, david/dcroll on slowchess/pimpf on freechess.org
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my favourite chess anecdote: http://www.ex.ac.uk/~dregis/DR/Stories/Hubner.html

mic · Post by **mic** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:28 pm

If cheaters cheat...it just diminishes their games and makes a mockery of the site they are playing on. I enjoy the competition and like emailing my opponents and learning about where they are from, jobs, kids, etc....its like in golf they arent really shooting par and they know it. i've only played 23 games so far and i can tell the cheaters...by the way i am 18-4-1 so come on cheaters bring it on...

mic
1745 USCF OTB rating circa 1974

katchum · Post by **katchum** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:33 am

Interesting cheat method, I've never tried this before.

wulebgr · Post by **wulebgr** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:39 am

Cheating is a real concern when cash is on the line, or if you take the ratings seriously. My rating here is 900+ above my USCF--how serious can that be?

At correspondence time controls, computers lose their edge. I'm with mic, "bring 'em on!" If you want to use your computer, I'll still enjoy the game.

Databases are another matter. Use of printed books and electronic databases in correspondence chess should be encouraged. There's no calculation involved, just utilizing the lessons of history--whether Lasker's opening ideas

or the latest games from http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/twic.html.

Would you forbid me from looking at any of my two dozen manuals on the Sicilian Defense during the three days I wait for your move?

Post by **gmiller** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:33 am

That cheating method has probably been around as long as chess has. Oddly, it can also be used to attack computers communicating on an otherwise secure network.

I wrote a paper a while back which adapts this cheating method to crack the login protocol used by Novell Netware. A Few Attacks on the Zero Knowledge State In Novell's NetWare.

dcroll · Post by **dcroll** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:58 pm

hi,

you are right with the use of opening books, analysis of other player's games and databases. these things should definitely be allowed because it's the player's effort to find the best move he can do, it's by thinking or searching. cheaters will, soon or later, make the experience that their "method" of playing chess will make absolutely no fun - and last but not least, their playing won't improve.

thanks for your opinions,

david