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katchum
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question

Post by katchum » Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:27 pm

How do you promote a geocities site on google or yahoo search engines?

hamot
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Post by hamot » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:54 am

I may be able to help, Katchum.

I have some software that does pretty well with that. Let me know if you want the assistance.

Tim

tellymetwise
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Post by tellymetwise » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:16 pm

How strange, my reply has disappeared.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:05 pm

Do you have to pay for it?

keithstuart
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Post by keithstuart » Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:18 pm

Not being to sound stupid or any thing but surely as Yahoo own Geocities and Google won't they be listed automatically??

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:07 am

So if I type piano, then my site will be displayed? Well it doesn't work.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:27 am

My title page is Piano Music, but if you type that in google, my site doesn't show up? I know I'm annoying but i hope you can forgive me.

By the way, I've put some pictures of myself on it, if you're interested you can go to the site: http://www.geocities.com/katchum_be

hamot
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Post by hamot » Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:51 am

katchum wrote:Do you have to pay for it?
No, I will do it for you for free. Probably in a week or so, as I will be gone from my computer after today until next week Tuesday. I can use the practice with my software.

I will need the url, though, so I can look at it and help come up with keywords to submit.

Remember that once you submit it, it can take over a month before it is actually listed with some engines, others only take a few hours to a few days.

Tim

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I could use everyone's help on this one.

Post by hamot » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:09 am

Ok, guys, here goes. I could use your help if Katchum wants me to submit this for him.

I need you to go to his site and look it over. Get a feel for what his site is all about and then suggest some keywords for me.

Katchum, you will need a "mission statement" so to speak that we can use as a description for the site submission.

Once we get these two things, then Katchum will need to add some meta tags listing these keywords and the description so that the engines can catalog the site properly.

Tim

tellymetwise
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Post by tellymetwise » Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:41 am

Katchum,

My previous message has somehow disappeared, so I'll post it again.

Promotion for Google:

1. Goto http://www.google.com
2. enter the page: about google (bottom, middle link)
3. enter the page: enter url
4. there you should be able to enter you url and discription

Promotion for Yahoo:

1. Goto http://www.yahoo.com
2. Select a main category where you want to be found, from the web site directory (bottom left)
(*3. Select a sub category where you want to be found)
4. enter the "suggest a site", can be found just above the web site directory.
5. from there on, it's explained.

It's all free, no charge

Good luck

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:52 pm

Tim, it's all very kind of you, but it looks very complex, and my site isn't that big yet... maybe some day I'll put more into it.

I don't understand what you are saying, so...

I'm going to try the tellmetwise-solution for now.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:55 pm

Google says they won't assure us they'll put the site on it.

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Post by katchum » Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:06 pm

Okay, I've submitted my site, but it's not such a big deal really.

But thanks for your help, maybe we can still promote my site your way. The more the better. But I'll have to enlarge the site somehow.

I use yahoo pagebuilder, and they don't seem to know wav and mp3 music so I am forced to use midi music.

Can someone help me how to make a real site without the defects of a general simplified pagebuilder? I hope I have time to learn it.

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Post by hamot » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:20 pm

Katchum -

You can, of course, submit your site at any time in any way. The problem is that, if you don't get ranked high in the keywords listings, you could end up being listing # 1,274,426 on the keyword "piano". Yes I made that number up.

The point is that, yes you will be listed, but no one will find you, even if they are TRYING to find you on that search engine.

The key to getting ranked high in the search engines has to do with META tags in your web page.

Here is a web page that explains this better, so I will just link you to it.

Click Here

And here is one of my sites that gives information about a course that I sell on how to build a website for people with no experience at all. I will give it to you free if you want to read it. It is an electronic book, so I can just email it to you, or give you the download page url.

Let me know,
Tim

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:05 pm

Your site link doesn't work, and as a fact the free submissions are of no value to me as it is stated in your first link.

hamot
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Post by hamot » Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:29 pm

There's a difference. What he is talking about is services that submit your site for you using software that does not adhere to the rules of each specific engine. The software that I use is sold by the person who wrote the article (read point #5 in his article), and does adhere to all of the current rules of each engine.

I clicked both links. They work from here.

Tim

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Post by tellymetwise » Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:19 pm

With google, I know it will find your site, whether you want it to or not.

That it did, is something I knew, as I never promoted my site. But I was surprised to notice (just 2 minutes ago) that different sites also mentioned my site and one even as a explicite reference for material. Wow.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:57 pm

Is there any way I can put better music on my site?

And where can I download the necessary things to make a website?

hamot
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Post by hamot » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:41 pm

katchum wrote:Do you have to pay for it?
No, and you would be doing me a favor by going through the course.

I'll upload the course to my servers for you to download and post a link here on this thread.

Tim

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Ebook

Post by hamot » Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:22 pm

Katchum -

Here is the link to download the ebook. I will email you the username and password separately.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Tim

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:26 pm

Whats the username and password?

hamot
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Post by hamot » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:28 pm

katchum wrote:Whats the username and password?
I emailed them to you via the slowchess.com server. Did you check your email?

katchum
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Post by katchum » Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:51 am

katchum_be@yahoo.com.hk?

I didn't receive it yet.

hamot
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Post by hamot » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:14 am

katchum wrote:katchum_be@yahoo.com.hk?

I didn't receive it yet.
I just emailed it to you using this address you gave me.

Tim

katchum
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Post by katchum » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:55 pm

Geocities is a whole lot easier than the real stuff I can tell you...

hamot
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Post by hamot » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:53 pm

katchum wrote:Geocities is a whole lot easier than the real stuff I can tell you...
Yes, but you get out of it what you put into it. It depends on what you want.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:26 pm

It appears that you can't put music on your website with netscape, or they don't mention how to do it.

It's funny, the only thing I can do is put a background image on the page and make tables...

hamot
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Post by hamot » Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:41 pm

katchum wrote:It appears that you can't put music on your website with netscape, or they don't mention how to do it.

It's funny, the only thing I can do is put a background image on the page and make tables...
I'll have to look into how to do that (the music). What format are the music files in?

Also, you can type text right into composer....the other stuff is for formatting, etc.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:09 am

It's rm mostly, some are mp3.
But the real problem is how do I put it on the internet...

hamot
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Post by hamot » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:56 am

You mean how do you upload the files? Or how do you play the files once they're uploaded?

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:56 am

I mean how do I get my off line pages on the internet.

hamot
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Post by hamot » Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:27 am

Using WS_FTP. The instructions are on Assignment 10, Page 2

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:02 pm

I've read it already and they say I know what my ID is and what my password is. But I really don't know what they are talking of.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:08 pm

So I signed myself in anonymous and when uploading they say this:
sending index.html as index.html (1 of 1) //so this is what I sent
TYPE I
200 Type set to I.
PASV
227 Entering Passive Mode (207,200,85,53,149,69)
connecting to 207.200.85.53:38213
..

connecting to 207.200.85.53:38213
Connected to 207.200.85.53:38213
STOR index.html
553 index.html: Permission denied (readonly server)
//so here is the problem

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:23 pm

So if I understand this correctly, you have to pay for every host you get, sign up for an account with your domain name, or use a free host like geocities is the alternative.
So that's what that ID and password stands for.

But I also heard of an ISP you can use, which doesn't cost you anything.
But I don't know how that works.

hamot
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Post by hamot » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:43 pm

katchum wrote:So I signed myself in anonymous and when uploading they say this:
sending index.html as index.html (1 of 1) //so this is what I sent
TYPE I
200 Type set to I.
PASV
227 Entering Passive Mode (207,200,85,53,149,69)
connecting to 207.200.85.53:38213
..

connecting to 207.200.85.53:38213
Connected to 207.200.85.53:38213
STOR index.html
553 index.html: Permission denied (readonly server)
//so here is the problem
The folder that you upload to must have permissions set to 644 or something higher, like 755. 553 permissions will not allow you to upload your files to the server. You can use WS_FTP to change the permissions of the folder that you are uploading the files to.

You seem to be working with a unix system. What I mean by permissions has to do with your site's security. The first number of the 3 has to do with the administrative permissions. If that first number is set to 4, you only have "permission" from the server to read the file/folder. If the number is set to 2, you only have permission to write (i.e. upload or delete) a file. And if the first number is a 1, you only have permission to execute a file (i.e. play a music file, perform an action of some kind).

For example, you listed this: 553 index.html

The first 5 means that you (the administrator) can read the file (4) and execute the file (1). 4+1=5, thus the first number is a 5. If the number were a 7, You could read (4), write (2), and execute (1). 4+2+1=7.

The second number is "group" permissions. You generally won't use this number, since it is just you working on the site.

The third number is "world" permissions. This means that anyone in the world can do whatever permission is given. For the example you gave (553), world permissions are write (2) and execute(1). But no one can read (4) the file. This is a problem, as I am sure that the reason the file is there is so people can read the file.

To summarize, 553 index.html means that

Administrator permissions are read (4) and execute (1)
Group permissions are also read (4) and execute (1).
World permissions are write (2) and execute (1).

The danger here is that giving world write permissions allows anyone to upload, delete, or alter your files.

Safer permissions would be 644 (world read only) for html files and 755 for files that perform an action (i.e. play a song).

katchum
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Post by katchum » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:05 pm

maybe you're right, I don't have an ordinary internet connection at the university.

You have to go to a page of the university, then sign in with a username and password, every day if you want to get on the internet.

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Post by hamot » Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:22 pm

katchum wrote:So if I understand this correctly, you have to pay for every host you get, sign up for an account with your domain name, or use a free host like geocities is the alternative.
So that's what that ID and password stands for.

But I also heard of an ISP you can use, which doesn't cost you anything.
But I don't know how that works.
The terms "host" and "server" are used interchangeably. The server is the computer where the files are "hosted", or uploaded to. When your site is accessed, the server sends the file that was requested and displays it on the person's computer.

What you pay a host for is to use their computer space and bandwidth. The host computer is connected directly to the internet, so that your personal computer does not have to be connected 24/7 to the internet. The account that you mention is the amount of space on the host computer that you are paying for. The more space you require, the more you pay them.

One other term to be familiar with is "bandwidth". When I access your web page, what happens is that your server sends the requested file (like your index.html file that you were trying to upload on your site) to my computer (it actually downloads it). The file gets stored in a folder on my hard drive called "Temporary Internet Files". Let's also say that your index.html file also displays 3 graphic files. My computer has to also download those 3 graphic files into the "Temporary Internet Files" folder before they can be displayed on my computer.

Each one of these 4 files is a particular size. Bandwidth, then, is the cumulative size of all the files that the server sends to other computers. If the 4 files combine for a total of 10k in size, then the server has transferred 10k of "bandwidth". If 10 people access that page, then 100k of bandwidth has been transferred by the server. Hosts tend to limit the amount of bandwidth that is transferred per month, since the server has to perform more actions when there is more bandwidth being transferred.

Another example: Let's say that I try to refresh your index.html page. All 4 files are now re-downloaded to my computer; hence, another 10k is transferred.

A "hit" is when someone accesses your web page and transfers these files. In your case, accessing the index.html file would count as 4 hits, because 4 files have been transferred.

I know that you didn't ask for all that information, but I thought it would be helpful to refer back to it in future discussions.

Anyway, back to your questions:

Registering a domain name is a separate cost. There is one central governing authority (internic, I believe) that registers domain names so that people have exclusive rights to that domain name. That domain name is then assigned a number (really, it is a series of numbers separated by periods, like 231.3.53.532 or something like that) and must be hosted (parked) by a server (called a nameserver - a server that hosts your domain name). There are a number of services that will register and park your domain name until you find a web host. Several web hosts will register your domain name for you and set up the nameserver information for you so that you are ready to go. And they will do it for free (saves you $35.00 USD).

Your last question - an ISP is an Internet Service Provider. That is another separate company that you use to connect your computer to the internet. It has nothing to do with your website. In your case, your ISP is your university.

I would imagine that you have a cable, T1, T3, OC3, or even a Fiber Optic connection at your university. I have a T1 at work, which is plenty fast.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:58 am

I always thought bandwidth was expressed in Hertz as in frequency.

But aside from that, how do I practically start, like which site I have to go to, where to sign up and things, what to fill in the ID and password, how to change 533 to higher than 700...

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Post by hamot » Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:21 am

katchum wrote:I always thought bandwidth was expressed in Hertz as in frequency.

But aside from that, how do I practically start, like which site I have to go to, where to sign up and things, what to fill in the ID and password, how to change 533 to higher than 700...
I do recommend a host in the course....200megwebhosting.com. You could also go to google or any search engine and type in "web host" or "hosting" or something like that. There are a ton of companies out there with various costs and features. Once you get a host, they will give you an ID and password.

To change permissions in WS_FTP, you need to log in to your site, enter the public_html folder (or wherever your files are kept...that is the most common name), right click on the file you want to change permissions on, and click on "chmd" (I think this stands for change mode, but whatever...it is the permissions command). Check on all 3 read checkboxes, give the owner write permissions, and then either click ok or check execute for owner, group, and other (world permissions). Execute is only necessary on files that perform an action - i.e. cgi files, asp files, and I think music files, but you could ask Greg on that one.

Perhaps bandwidth also refers to frequency (I assume that you mean "speed of data transfer" when you say frequency). I am no expert; only self taught. Greg or Tellymetwise, do you know anything about this?

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Post by gmiller » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:13 am

Bandwidth is normally expressed/billed in two different ways, either MB/s or total MB. The MB/s being the fastest transfer speed you want, and total MB being the total amount of data you transfer. Most of the cheaper sites just give you "unlimited" bandwidth. In this case "Unlimited" means "very little", but is more than enough for any personal web page, and most business web sites.

As far as the permissions go, you don't want to change them unless you're going to be running CGI scripts, and even then you only want to change the permissions on the scripts themselves, and the files they'll be accessing.

katchum
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Post by katchum » Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:22 am

I'm following a course about this, it's called "information transfer".

You could define bandwidth as the half of your suprema of your maxima seen in your Fourrier transformed graphic of your signal.
The signal you send is first being discretisised per second. If your frequency of discretisation is raised you need more bandwidth.

But getting a host will cost me money, and I don't really need a site so I'll just leave it.

I'd better focus on my studies.

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Post by gmiller » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:35 pm

Ahhhh, now that's a good definition :shock: . But not really necessary for developing web pages.

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Post by hamot » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:38 pm

:lol:

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Post by tellymetwise » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:32 pm

Katchum, you will be hearing of BIC TCP soon, seems to be using the bandwidth a itsy bitsy better, about 6.000 times better then DSL (or 150.000 times better then a modem)

check out this link

With that "light-ning" speed, your webpage should already be on your site, before uploaded

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Post by katchum » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:08 pm

Well, I didn't choose to make it this difficult. It's that researcher Naiquist who said that you wouldn't want to have more bandwidth if necessary.

Don't think that if you have more bits/sec that you would transfer more information, you know. Most of it is redundant.
So that man says you have an optimum frequency for your bandwidth, his so called frequency of Naiquist.

What you call bits/sec = 2 times bandwidth frequency x average quantity of information H(x)

I've decided for now I certainly won't go into electronics and computers, it's just not my thing...

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