Standard Format for future Zapper Tournaments options Poll?

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What should be the standard format for future Zapper Tournaments?

Poll ended at Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:37 pm

A) The “Classic” Format from the 2010 Zapper
0
No votes
B) The 2011 Zapper Madness
5
42%
C) Classic Revised
1
8%
D) 2012 Revised
1
8%
E) “Handicap” Zapper
1
8%
F) “Elimination match” Zapper
4
33%
G) “Swiss System” Zapper
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 12

cliff
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Standard Format for future Zapper Tournaments options Poll?

Post by cliff » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:37 pm

) The “Classic” Format from the 2010 Zapper -
( Modeled after the Open, it consisted of four tournaments, with 21 players. The top two from each individual tournament advanced to the second round, consisting of two tournaments of four players. The two winners of those tournaments played off for the championship in the third round. As it turned out, Davidwhite and Ramawolf decided to share the Gold Medal without playing.)

B) The 2011 Zapper Madness -
(Four teams of five players in five tournaments, one per board, competed in a three round event. No teams were eliminated, and the cumulative number of points scored decided the winner. Team Tyr took the Gold medal. This was a minor variation of Brian's original team idea, with a few bugs ironed out.)

(Note: the Official Rules and results of these two tournaments can be found in past forum posts.)

C) Classic Revised -
(Instead of three rounds and an open entry – which is why the 2010 Classic had 21 players -
freeze the number of entrants at 20, and have two rounds. Four tournaments of five players each, with the winner of each advancing to a final round two.)

D) 2012 Revised -
(Same as this year, but reduce the number of players to four per team, and perhaps go back to four teams. Two rounds with two games versus each other, cumulative points decide the final winners.)
E) “Handicap” Zapper -
(This option would give the lower rated players a bit of a better chance of victory. For the sake of argument, we'll say Four tournaments of five players each. The pairings would be random, as in the 2010 Classic. Based on the average rating of each tournament, the players below that rating would get handicap points. Let's say a tournament has an average of 2400, for example. For each fifty or a hundred points below that average, a player would receive a “bonus” point, up to a certain maximum handicap. A player rated 2000 would receive two handicap points added to his score, if it was decided that the handicap would be fifty points per hundred below the average. The four winners advance, and the handicap could be halved for the second and final round.)

F) “Elimination match” Zapper -
(Between eighteen and twenty-two players – we need an even number, divisible by two – play matches consisting of two or three games each. The pairings would be either based on rating or random. The winners of each advance and play each other until only two are left. Those two play for the Gold! Heck, I think everyone knows what an elimination match is, so why am I even explaining this one?)

G) “Swiss System” Zapper -
(Why not? Someplace on the computer I have some Swiss System software, or could easily download some by then. The number of rounds would obviously be dependent on the number of entrants. If we had twenty players, we could have two tournaments of ten players, and a deciding round as the top three advance. Round two could be a typical round robin perhaps. It may be a bit shaky here and there, but what the hell? I think we could pull it off.)

---------------------------------------------------

cliff
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Re: Standard Format for future Zapper Tournaments options Po

Post by cliff » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:48 pm

I think I'll cast the first vote here. Which is really the third vote, since Eugene and Josh responded in the forum...whatever?

:?

Anyway, Given a choice between them, I'd have to cast my votes for:

F) the Elimination Match system. I think it's very doable, and could produce some fast results!

E) the HandicapZapper. Because I think it would give the underdogs a better chance of pulling some upsets!

and,

B) the 2011 Zapper Madness. It's popularity and success was overwhelming, and I'm reminded of the old saying..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
I think the expansion to five teams this year was much like the ridiculous expansion in the NHL of late. Too much, too soon.


So....next?


- Cliff

ecperreault
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Re: Standard Format for future Zapper Tournaments options Po

Post by ecperreault » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:47 pm

How come it won't let me vote more than once?
I was going to go 'Putin' on the Poll and vote 8 Gazillion times but the crummy thing must be set in Democracy mode or something.
Just NOT Fair!
Hard to 'recount' 4-5 votes and get the result you want, ya know!
Image
Fine!
I guess I will have to 'Vote' the good ol' American way...
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johnrbrown
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:54 pm

Re: Standard Format for future Zapper Tournaments options Po

Post by johnrbrown » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:33 am

I like any format that allows everyone to play till the end of the tournament. No Eliminations.
Five players per Board is fine with me.
Five or six teams is good as well.

cliff
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Re: Standard Format for future Zapper Tournaments options Po

Post by cliff » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:45 pm

Comments on the Poll up to Tuesday. August 27. (5 Days)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again, these are the choices, I'll try to post an update every five or six days, as to what the numbers seem to indicate. To me, at any rate. But first, I thought I'd comment on my own opinions of the various options:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A) The “Classic” Format from the 2010 Zapper - (Zero votes to date)

While the 2011 Zapper may have been the most popular, the 2010 Classic Zapper, the inaugural event was a masterpiece! Look at the lineup, which included: the Legendary Davidswhite; The top-five rated Ramawolf; Gmiller, the”Father' of Net-Chess, so to speak; the ever-irrepressible Islanderfan; and Iamachessstudent, Jeff's nephew as well as a great analyst and player! Throw in Energy, Jpost, Jpettit, Mluka, and a host of others, representing eight countries, and you have a once in a lifetime event!

It could only be duplicated, but never replicated! It would be like filming a remake of “Casablance” or “It's a Wonderful Life”, or painting over the Sistine Chapel.

I think somethings are best left alone.

(08/27/12)

B) The 2011 Zapper Madness - (4 votes to date)

Four veteran captains fielded four veteran teams in the first, to my knowledge, Team Tournament to ever be played on Net-Chess. There were twelve newcomers to the event, along with eight returnees from the Classic. The number of views and posts were astronomical, and certainly set a site record! Am incredibly popular and well followed event went down to the wire in the third round!
First place was decided with only three games remaining in the tournament, while third place was decided by the very last result! A great nail-biting finish to a tournament that featured great comebacks, incredible collapses, interesting upsets and fantastic input! Add in some wonderfully entertaining reporting, thanks to Eugene, and some great game analysis by Josh, not to mention a pretty good job of figuring out how to do it, by Brian and myself!

Lots of fun for all, and one of the options I voted for.!

I think we should stick with the cumulative scoring from now on if we go teams, though. It really made the last round interesting, as the all the medals were still up for grabs!

I also think we should stick with four teams, and, ue learned from this event and the 2012 that it's a good idea to have a few alternates ready to fill in for any players who withdraw. We should always do that too!

(08/27/12)


C) Classic Revised - (1 vote to date)

For all the reasons I listed not to try and redo the Classic above, I don't really like this one either. Perhaps for a tenth anniversary Zapper, in 2021, but not for a standard format.

(08/27/12)

D) 2012 Revised - (1 vote to date)

Again, this wouldn't be a choice of mine. I think if we stick with the Team format, we should just go back to the 2011 version. For some strange reason, the five team version just doesn't seem as good as the four. And, as I mentioned above, the cumulative point scoring created a great finish. Certainly, that would be the way to go, as far as I'm concerned.

08/27/12

E) “Handicap” Zapper - (1 vote to date)

This is another one of my selections. I'm sure we'd have to kick around certain aspects of it. How many players, how many sections, how many handicap points, etc. But, as I mentioned above, it does have the nice aspect of evening up the event. In the Classic, it would have given David a better chance against Brian.! ☺

My only concern is that it would seem to tamper with the basic purity of the game itself. Part of what makes chess such a magnificent game is the rules of the game. And upsets have certainly been known to occur on their own, without the aid of any handicap points.

I remember the 2011 Net-Chess Open. In the first round, I had the luck to be seeded in a tournament with only one strong player. That was Flyingtiger. The rest I had played before, and beaten soundly.

All but Heyunevero, who played in the 2011 Zapper, as a matter of fact. He at the time was rated around 1930 or so. Brimming with overconfidence, I played what I thought was a lovely Queen sacrifice. As it turned out, it was a disaster and I lost to him in about 20 moves! That certainly made for an interesting finish, as Flyingtiger and I fought to the last game for first place. I was lucky enough to win the tournament, but had it not been for the loss to Heyuneverno, I would have clinched first before that final game. Certainly no handicap was needed there, and it was made it a really interesting event to play in.

((I got clobbered soundly in the second round, but we won't go there.....)

08/27/12

F) “Elimination match” Zapper - (4 votes to date)

My personal favourite, at least at the moment.

When I gave it some further thought, I even realized there was a way that this format would help completely eliminate the problem caused, however minor they may be, by no-shows and/or withdrawals.

An example: We have twenty players, which makes ten matches in the first round. We currently have seven players who have played in all three Zappers, and I'm certain that same seven will be back. We also have eight players who have played in two Zappers. I think most of them will return also. So getting the ten players to post the round one matches should be no problem at all!

At this stage, after the initial matches are posted. If a player doesn't join the match in. let's say, ten days, he forfeits and is eliminated. (Unless, of course, we decide on a double elimination system, but I'd rather not open that can of worms!). That eliminates the no-show problem, by eliminating the player. The opponent advances to round two. Five more matches are played between the survivors in Round two, and the five remaining players then play a typical Round-Robin tournament for the medals in Round Three.

Very nice and simple. The easiest tournament, from an organization standpoint, by far!

08/28/12

G) “Swiss System” Zapper - (Zero votes to date)

Although I originally liked this option, I've gone over the idea a few more times, and realize that it would probably require too many matches to be posted over too many rounds to work well in a tournament that gets the number of entrants as the Zapper. I rather hope this one doesn't win the vote, right now. Maybe in a few years, but not now.

08/28/12


After we narrow the options down to a final three, I plan to post one more poll, allowing One Vote, with those three choices. That will be the final established format for the future Zappers! So I really hope that the participants, past and present, will let their opinion be known here!

To the best of my knowledge, the Zapper is the only player-run tournament that Net-Chess has ever had, so let's keep working at it and making it a fixture. I believe there was one other tournament that someone organized here some years back. I can't recall the name, but I believe the organizer even posted a one hundred dollar first prize. Unfortunately, I think I heard that the event petered out after a round or two. In which case, I should really say the Zapper has been the first Successful player-run toruament here.

One more request: could the players who vote here make a short post telling why they voted as they did, or even just letting us know that they voted by a small post? I'd really like to know where the input is coming from.

Thanks,

- Cliff.

ecperreault
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Re: Standard Format for future Zapper Tournaments options Po

Post by ecperreault » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:37 pm

I voted 14 times but so far only my first options have shown up... I ain't figured out why, yet.
I voted for these: ... eleventeen times each!
B) The 2011 Zapper Madness
F) “Elimination match” Zapper
My favorite is definitely B) The 2011 Zapper Madness. I thought it brought a lot of drama to the chase for the Gold.
It also allowed me a day or 2 between 'UNBIASED Reports' and allowed a weekly (most of the time) longer report without the players seeming to know there was a lapse in between 'UNBIASED Reports'. Furthermore, it ran smoothly and seemed to move right along (except for the long drag out of the last couple games of round 1).
I am revamping the Scoreboard a little, and have 'hired' a few new crew members to help with the 'UNBIASED Reports' once in a while.
My worries about the “Elimination match” Zapper would be that it isn't very long and maybe it wouldn't be robust enough. The Team concept allows a lot of players from different ratings to play and be an important part of the results (without any handicapping!) - remember Mi (2150) bringing 'The Beerdrinkers' back from waaay in last place to contention at the start of Round 2 almost single-handedly!
I believe it is, was, and always be a great format.
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