Josh game of the day

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islanderfan
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Joined: Mon May 14, 2001 10:56 pm

Josh game of the day

Post by islanderfan » Tue May 01, 2012 10:50 am

g1105106588 I need your expertise on this on between you and Hans. I don't get his c4 move, and why you would either ask for or take a draw? :?: :?: :?:

krambambuli
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:52 am

Re: Josh game of the day

Post by krambambuli » Tue May 01, 2012 11:19 am

Would you (concerning my c4) accept my explanation and let's see which one will be given by Josh: This whole line of the Sveshnikov (Sicilian) where White sacrifices their Bishop on b5 will not turn into a disaster for White if and when they succeed in blocking or at the very least in hampering the black King to hide Queenside. There the King would be perfectly protected by White's pawns on a2 b2 and c2. So White has to open lines on that side to reach at least for a draw. Cause a draw is the best result White can hope for if both sides play carefully and avoid the many pitfalls lurking in this line. Some years ago I asked my friend David (Davidswhite) to play a 4 games match with this line which he accepted. All 4 games ended in a draw if I remember correctly. Josh' move Rg8 was completely new to me and it took me quite a few hrs. to find the right way and moves. The final position is completely equal and there's no way for either side to reach for more than a draw. May be there are still theoretical novelties to be discovered and one day the final judgment will be given. I like this line and arising positions cause its dynamic, unclear and double-edged. 3 years ago I played GM Balabaev and chose this line just to find out if ever I will be able to find a new set up and - was severely punished resigning soon after.

islanderfan
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon May 14, 2001 10:56 pm

Re: Josh game of the day

Post by islanderfan » Tue May 01, 2012 1:54 pm

Hans thanks for the reply. But I still don't see where a draw would come about. I am of course don't have the rating that you Josh and Dave, Asoka, etc have, but it appears to me that you have the advantage. Josh seems to have to play more defensive, especially since you have your queen and 2 rooks. Maybe I am wrong but curious to see if you to would've had played it on, to see if I would have been right. :)

iamachessstudent
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Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:35 pm

Re: Josh game of the day

Post by iamachessstudent » Tue May 01, 2012 4:30 pm

Hello there Brian and Hans!

Well, good questions Brian...and I liked Han's explanations and I just want to add a few things on that:

This whole variation of the Sveshnikov Sicilian is very, very dangerous to the unprepared player, both as White, but more so as black! That sacrifice on b5 on move 11 by White is a very clear note of his serious intention to win while blasting Black off the board in the process, and when I saw Hans play it, I was like "ok, ok remember to breathe and prepare for a Sh#$ storm"...and it was! It is a very terrifying variation to play against !

I wish I cold take credit for the move 14...Rg8, but the truth, is that it was a recommendation of John Cox in his remarkable and educational book "Starting out: The Sicilian Svehsnikov" Everyman Chess, which has been my bible and resource since I have been playing the Svenshnikov for over 3 years now...the move is given as a "virtually untried move,but safer than the main-line 14...Rxe4" which I have played also, but it gives White more chances to turn up the heat on Black's position!

Interestingly also, ChessBase 11 after I ran a position search on the moves only has 1 game in the base with 14...Rg8!? and it is a WHITE win ( 19 move checkmate), but Black played like crap and it was a Blitz game, 'nuff said! lol
Hiaracs 13 has 2 games with 14..Rg8!?, a 47 move draw (after 15.g3) and a 79 move win for White (after 15.Qh5) ... I'd say black can maintain with 14...Rg8!, but he has to really understand the position to do so!

Also, Han's 15. c4 was a good move...when paired with 16.Qh5, as it sets Black direct mating threats he has to deal with and cannot try and use his material advantage against White.

I felt the ending position was also equal, dynamically so! I was more worried about Whites 2 passed pawns (the A and B pawns are just waiting for a chance to be pushed to the 8th)! more so than trying to figure out how to launch a mating attack against his King!

Hope this helped Bri!!:)

Joshua

islanderfan
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Re: Josh game of the day

Post by islanderfan » Tue May 01, 2012 5:27 pm

But Josh to me he has more power in his pieces than you do. Also he has more pawns. What am I missing? :?: :?: :?:

iamachessstudent
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:35 pm

Re: Josh game of the day

Post by iamachessstudent » Tue May 01, 2012 8:18 pm

Hey Bri

Its not anything I can show you in specific moves or variations...the nature of the position is easier for White to mess it up than it is black.
The a and b pawns White has CANT be pushed yet, he has to deal with the threat to his Knight and the reorganization of Black's pieces to attack the White King!

Plus now, White has to basically reorganize his pieces for the next stage of the game, and that won't be easy to do!
Remember, with moves like ...Qg6 and getting rid of the White Queen from his K-side , black cold then position his 2 bishops at the K-side , giving White allot to think about, since the Black King is relatively safe!

As I said it not what you are missing, it is just understanding how the dynamics of the positions work
Hans and I both decided not to continue because of the worries about our own positions,not any concrete threats...
There are quite a few times this will hap[pen and both players will agree to a draw inn view of the complications that are ahead, and neither wants to take that chance..one move CAN lose the game:)

Joshua

islanderfan
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Re: Josh game of the day

Post by islanderfan » Tue May 01, 2012 8:25 pm

ok I think I get it, but the c4 move why not do b3 then c4?

iamachessstudent
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:35 pm

Re: Josh game of the day

Post by iamachessstudent » Tue May 01, 2012 8:51 pm

I can answer that in concrete variations...

IF White plays 15. b3 then Black has a nice choice of a couple moves:

15...Rxe4 which is direct and strong....White can try 16. Qh5 for a main attack, but then 15...Qg5! REALLY holds everything and gives Black many threats...and if White decides to try" to continue the"attack" by 16. Qxf7+, then the simple 16...Be7! leave s him high and dry and his King is still facing nasty threats!

Black cold also try the direct 15...Qg5! just threatening checkmate! White then tries 16. g3; Rxe4! and Blck is better;
16. Qf3, 16...Nd4! and again, Id hate to be White here!
that pretty well explains why Hans did not play 15. b3 I hope?!

joshua

krambambuli
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:52 am

Re: Josh game of the day

Post by krambambuli » Wed May 02, 2012 12:57 am

Exactly, this whole line is leading (after the sacrifice) every move to unbalanced positions where you don't have the time to prepare something long in advance - the whole board is rocking and turned into a minefield. And yep as Josh said in OTB this line would be fatal for any Black player being not well prepared.
Below a crucial position in my game against GM Farit Balabaev.i knew that QXf7 would lead to a draw however I wanted to find out if Qh3 in order to transfer the Queen to the Queenside wouldn't be stronger. So I played 19.Qh3 and after 19...Qg5 ( a typical move in this line ) I resigned a few moves later. Hopeless to continue.
[fen]2bq1br1/1kN2p1p/3p4/3Npp1Q/3nr3/2R5/PPP2PPP/R5K1 w - - 0 19[/fen]
That blunder shows how dangerous this line is.

islanderfan
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Re: Josh game of the day

Post by islanderfan » Wed May 02, 2012 6:19 am

I think I get it, Josh this could be the decoy move you where talking about previously? Oh Hans the game is up when your ready!

iamachessstudent
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:35 pm

Re: Josh game of the day

Post by iamachessstudent » Wed May 02, 2012 7:29 am

TY Bri!

Hans: Good diagram and you are right, a very good example of how dangerous that entire line is!

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