a question of ethics (in correspondence games)

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ramprasad
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a question of ethics (in correspondence games)

Post by ramprasad » Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:03 pm

Hi all:

Where can I find out what is and is not ethical in a corresp game? I read in a article that the use of Opening trees was legal, since it is only a statistical tool, and not a Chess Engine per se. (I was not aware of this).

Where do you all stand on this, and a couple of links on what's permitted would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ram

mluka
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Post by mluka » Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:17 pm

I don't know a particular webpage regarding correspondence ethics (although surely some exist), but a general rule of thumb is that most anything outside of using a chess engine or outright asking someone for assistance with a position is acceptable - including opening trees, game/opening databases, books, etc. It seems that anything that could be printed material - whether it is actually in that format or not - is acceptable.
Also, you can find several players here willing to take on a computer-assisted opponent, provided they know going into the match that such will be the case.
I've been wondering for a while whether endgame tablebases are legal. Does anybody know? I might have a better idea if I knew exactly what they were. :roll:

keithstuart
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Post by keithstuart » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:25 pm

Personally i have no idea what specific rules exist but i would say the use of books and any other source of opening material would be perfectly acceptable

i use two opening books myself more for reference purposes than anything else

as for websites having rules for correspondance chess well i would say visit http://www.iecg.org as there rule list is very comprehensive

i should know this as in my new role as a tounrment secretary with IECG i have to know the rules inside out and backwards

tellymetwise
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Post by tellymetwise » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:01 pm

mluka wrote:
SNIP

I've been wondering for a while whether endgame tablebases are legal. Does anybody know? I might have a better idea if I knew exactly what they were. :roll:
As to what they are, follow the link below:

Nalimov Table Base
As to it's use, it mainly consists of positions which can be seen without it's use through experience.
As far as I know, it is legitimate to use endgame tablebases (correct me if I'm wrong keith)

Hmm, the official link doesn't seem to work now(?).
Google provided this link which seems to work fine.

spare link to Nalimov tablebase

Don't worry Keith, I won't be using the tablebase anyhow. Unless they would provide the move sequence for:
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
But that would be something :D

gmiller
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Post by gmiller » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:35 pm

The USCF has their official rules in their official rule book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books

IIRC the only rules regarding analysis was that you could only consult any written material that existed before the match started. But my copy is rather old, and the rules may have been updated to cover databases now.

------

:idea: But here's a situation for thought: Say you're playing your favorite opening in one or possibly several games. Are you now forbidden from practicing and analyzing that opening using a computer until you're well into the middle game? What if you've always got a game or two going with that opening?

mluka
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Post by mluka » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:51 pm

tellymetwise wrote:
As to what they are, follow the link below:

Nalimov Table Base
As to it's use, it mainly consists of positions which can be seen without it's use through experience.
As far as I know, it is legitimate to use endgame tablebases (correct me if I'm wrong keith)

Hmm, the official link doesn't seem to work now(?).
Google provided this link which seems to work fine.

spare link to Nalimov tablebase
Thanks for the links and info!
gmiller wrote: :idea: But here's a situation for thought: Say you're playing your favorite opening in one or possibly several games. Are you now forbidden from practicing and analyzing that opening using a computer until you're well into the middle game? What if you've always got a game or two going with that opening?
Davidswhite and I constantly have games going, so it's gotten to the point where we'll play mini-thematics against one another. I had to make him choose the opening for several matches in a row because I'm playing some postal games and didn't want to risk being unethical. I could just as easily go and play a bunch of blitz games with an unfamiliar opening I'm facing, but that wouldn't feel right either - then again, if the opening in question was already one in my repertoire, I wouldn't have any qualms about continuing to play it in any new games.

alchab
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Post by alchab » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:25 am

I'm pretty much surprised about what you all write. I thought help in any form would be unethical. I'm playing like this. If I'm interested in any analysis, I do it after the game is over. This is the way I learn. If I'm interested in any opening, I try to learn it (from books or whatever) after the game has ended (or after the opening is over). I don't learn it while I play it.
My way of playing is a simulation of ordinary chess, where you don't have these little helpers either.
I would like a set of rules or appointments on this matter on net-chess as a general basis of understanding.
And also, I would definitely vote for excluding endgame tablebases. In my eyes they are an instrument for after game analysis. They are no instrument during the game (except for computers), because they tell you the direct way to your win, even if the win is still some 40 moves away. I would not like an email from my opponent asking me to give up because of a tablebase analysis.

Interesting discussion!

Alchab

keithstuart
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Post by keithstuart » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:31 am

hmm a damn fine link tellymetwise

shame i know sod all about FEN formats i can follow the setting up of the board bit but the last bit is baffling i can follow that b or w represents whose move is next but the rest is totally unknown

keithstuart
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Post by keithstuart » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:35 am

as for whether or not end game tables are allowed you'll have to wait until i get my printer fixed/repaced later today as i am not reading the rules via adobe on the pc screen buggers my eyes up after a while with lots of scrolling text

tellymetwise
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Post by tellymetwise » Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:25 am

keithstuart wrote:hmm a damn fine link tellymetwise

shame i know sod all about FEN formats i can follow the setting up of the board bit but the last bit is baffling i can follow that b or w represents whose move is next but the rest is totally unknown
Here is Wikipedia again, with: FEN Notation

It explains those last parts of the code.

keithstuart
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Post by keithstuart » Sun Oct 19, 2003 10:45 am

thanks for that i cna have a play with a few games of mine now

atibliss
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Re: a question of ethics (in correspondence games)

Post by atibliss » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:18 pm

does it count as a rule-breaker here if someone supposingly is playing himself under the different accounts? thanks,

ziggyblitz
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Re: a question of ethics (in correspondence games)

Post by ziggyblitz » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:04 am

I've seen clone accounts play each other with a whole bunch of Fool's Mates for the purpose of giving the new account an accurate and established rating. You could use a few accounts to boost your rating up to 3000, but there would be no point in having an artificial rating.
From what I've read on Chess.com's Cheating Forum the use of endgame databases is not allowed and is considered cheating. I am unsure about endgame books, but I believe they are allowed.

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