ZAPPER MADNESS

For discussion pertaining to Chess, Net-Chess, or general interests.
islanderfan
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ZAPPER MADNESS

Post by islanderfan » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:27 pm

ok new format this year. Myself Cliff, and Josh are "captains" of 3 teams. I have a 4th in mind, waiting to hear back from him. Depending on how many people join will decide on how many spots are on each team. example:
team A has 4
team B has 4
team C has 4
team D has 4

ie total of 16 people not including the captains. team A vs B, C vs D winners will face each other; losers face each other. Then, (example) B wins, and C wins then B vs C for the title. Then the winning group from all pool play,will play each other for sole supreme winner.
So with that in mind who cares to join? I don't wish for this to be a long drawn out series so the time controls will be prob 10 days with an hour or 2 of added time. I also will start this around August time frame, so get in if you want! :D :D


P.S it will be a draft of who gets placed where, captains will pick

cliff
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Post by cliff » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:09 pm

I'm on board for Brian's Zapper Madness, of course.

But I would like to make a suggestion or two.

- If it's to be a Round Robin Tournament, much like the team tournament format I'm testing now. A three-player team, including the captains, takes each player playing ten games. So for a five-man team, including captains, a RR-tourney would entail playing 18 games. For some of us, who prefer to keep their games in play at about 20 or so, that's a fair number of games in one event! Although, I'll certainly still play, if that's the decided number and format, I'd like to suggest 4 teams of four, including the captains.
One way around that would be a format of only one game against each other player. but in team tournaments, that would no doubt entail some teams getting a disproportionate amount of games with either black or white. While allowing for more possibility of upsets, it would likely be unfair to some team somewhere in the long run, so I'd nix that idea.

- I like the short time limit idea, it should get the tournament going and keep the momentum for round two & three. I note that momentum for events, while great at the start, tends to peter out as things progress.

- Which brings me to another issue:

I have been very guilty of not keeping the 2010 Zapper up and running. I have no excuses, only apologies. I would like to implore David to post the match between he & Ramawolf for the Zapper 2010 Final, and notify me of the match number when it starts, if he could? I promise to have it posted and followed as it goes along, and do a wrap-up and the end. I would like to thank everyone for participating, and hope that this years' Zapper Madness is also a success!

I'm looking forward to this event, Brian.

I hope we get some feedback!

:)

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:42 pm

I think 16 including us will be enough, plus 1 game per round should be fine. the people in each team won't play each other, just the other pool.

cliff
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Post by cliff » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:59 pm

Ah, so this is an entirely different format than the one we're playing in now? In that case, although I'm certainly still on board for the idea, you might have to clarify just how the teams will play each other?

Now you got me confused!!!!


:? :evil:

redketchuplover
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Post by redketchuplover » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:24 am

Let the madness begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:50 am

So far one victim errrr person has joined!

cliff
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Post by cliff » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:37 am

It occured to me that likely nobody else knows what the hell "team format" we were talking about here, so this is an excerpt from emails I sent to the players named below to test a team format.



three-man teams; Cliff, John White, and Brian versus Jan, John Brown, and Pete. I posted the score sheet again below.

TEAM A - Pts. - W - D - W - TEAM B
Cliff - - - - - Jan
Cliff - - - - - John Brown
Cliff - - - - - Pete
John W. - - - - - Jan
John W. - - - - - John Brown
John W. - - - - - Pete
Brian - - - - - Jan
Brian - - - - - John Brown
Brian - - - - - Pete
Total - - - - -



I think everyone gets the idea. And it was posted in a 2gm RR format, so along with playing the members of the opposing team (in this case, I play 2 games against each of Jan (jvanmechelen), John (johnrbrown), and Pete (pwillows). And, I think everyone can figure out how the scores work, team-wise. But this is a ten game tournament for everyone in it, with three-man teams.With four man teams, a RR is 14 games, five-man teams is 18 games, etc.

I'm not really certain I want to see 18 game events, and I'm not sure of any other format that would work.

Brian suggests one game each player, which would work, but we'd all have to agree that some team or another will be stuck with more black than white games. If that's fine, I'm game.

And the unpredictablility of results like would be appealing, since with only one game, more upsets can occur.

But I don't understand when you said "I think 16 including us will be enough, plus 1 game per round should be fine. the people in each team won't play each other, just the other pool."

I don't see how playing each other can be avoided.

Wanna run that by me again, chum?

:D

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:29 pm

i figure 16 players total for the 4 teams. one game each pool play, ie my 4 peeps against your 4 peeps which would be only one per player. not 4 different 1 player games, if that helps or did I confuse you more?

iamachessstudent
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Post by iamachessstudent » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:08 pm

That time control is VERY fast...10 days and only 2h per ove....not into that at all...WAY too gast if u miss a day becasue of CLASSES.TESTS u r in a hole :(
Why not 15d+ mayube that can be swung better

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:53 pm

could do 15d + 2h. Still trying to figure the game amounts though. once I have people who join then can set it up. I maybe confusing people a bit more but it should be about 4 games per pool. and 15 spots are up for grabs unless redketchuplover isn't in.

iamachessstudent
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Post by iamachessstudent » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:19 pm

I understand the 15d is good and the 2hour grrr but thats up to u all!
I hope we can get some interest in these ideas~!

I have noticed that, on this site, many people never comment or speak very little...I do not know how to interpret that...On one hand I think its pretty sad that ppl dont care enough to take a few minutes and write and add their opins and views etc etc, on the other maybe people just want to play Chess and are not interested in a forum or talking?@

Either way I had to get that off my chest,.,TY all!

Joshua!

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:34 pm

I put the 2hr out there just for the reason of I wanted to keep it around the 15 day mark.

energy
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people never comment or speak very little

Post by energy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:07 am

iamachessstudent wrote: I have noticed that, on this site, many people never comment or speak very little...I do not know how to interpret that...On one hand I think its pretty sad that ppl dont care enough to take a few minutes and write and add their opins and views etc etc, on the other maybe people just want to play Chess and are not interested in a forum or talking?@

Either way I had to get that off my chest,.,TY all!

Joshua!
For me personally, it simple. Playing good chess in itself takes lot of time and I have things to do in real life, so engaging here would take away from other more important activities. Sorry.
Nils

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iamachessstudent
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Post by iamachessstudent » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:51 am

For me personally, it simple. Playing good chess in itself takes lot of time and I have things to do in real life, so engaging here would take away from other more important activities. Sorry.

I can understand that, but we always talk on OTB before and after a game, correspondence..and I see what you mean but surely a few lines is not going to take away frm the quality of your Chess or keep you from your personal life.... if it does ok but I will agree to disagree wih you :) Especially if it is involving our tourmanents n site workings...

davidswhite
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Joshua's observation about srarcity of forum postings here

Post by davidswhite » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:01 am

I share Nil's explanation for posting so rarely at Net-Chess. On a host of other chess forums my participation is equally lackluster and confined almost entirely to reacting occasionally to other people's comments.

Joshua, I believe that a lively forum is a good thing and wish that time allowed me to contribute more,especially here at Net-Chess where my roots run deepest. Should circumstance ever permit otherwise,I do intend to be more active.

Regards,
David

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:31 am

Dave I think Josh's point more is people play here but don't say anything. It seems to me you me Nils and maybe a few more, have been here the longest and this is the most silent I have ever seen this forum. It doesn't take that much energy to write.
Maybe that crybaby cornstalk had a vision of what was to come of the forum and/or the site itself.

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:32 am

my other line wasn't put in so here it is again:

People talk in games and in OTB, so why not here?

energy
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Asking for others point of view.

Post by energy » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:00 pm

iamachessstudent wrote:but surely a few lines is not going to take away frm the quality of your Chess or keep you from your personal life...
islanderfan wrote:It doesn't take that much energy to write.
For others to stay and engage, it's not a matter of what you think, what matter is what those you want to participate thinks. Now both David and I tried to explain why we personally doesn't participate, only to get rewarded with basically "I think you're wrong".

Did you think that was a good way to get more replies? Yea, yea. I'm replying, but only because I do have a bit of extra time right now. Don't depend on it! :wink:

Wouldn't a more constructive response have been to accept that what I (and I presume David as well) said is true, even if you don't feel that way? Then maybe a better answer would be something like "That is interesting. What could be done to make it faster and less time-consuming to participate?"
Nils

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islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:39 pm

We are getting off the track of the original post, so if we could keep it a bit clear please THANKS! but Nils just cause someone says one thing doesn't mean your answer, or his for that matter are correct either. it's an opinion and if it is taken the other way,than intented, that's the other persons judgment.

cmulligan
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Post by cmulligan » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:14 pm

Glad I found this post to get a better idea of what the "Zapper" is all about.Looks like fun,just not sure I could meet the time requirements.May go ahead,say "What the heck,why not",& give it a shot.I generally stink under time pressure which is why in the past I've always done much better at cc than otb chess.Of course,the worst that happens is I lose some games due to time or bumbling.Wouldnt be a first for me... :)

Tell ya what.Go ahead & sign me up & if you guys promise not to laugh at me too much if I blow it,I'll promise to try not to flood the forums with my tears of shame & humiliation... :lol:

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:50 pm

it's ok Cliff is used to losing he's a Leafs fan

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:02 pm

ok so far me cliff and Josh, cmulligan, redketchuplover,andpwillows are in so far. anyone else?

energy
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Zapper

Post by energy » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:56 am

islanderfan wrote:ok so far me cliff and Josh, cmulligan, redketchuplover,andpwillows are in so far. anyone else?
I suppose I can join in, but the team I play on should be aware that with time controls like that, if something comes up I might easily lose on time.
Nils

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islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:48 am

Nils what would you like the time controls to be? I thought keeping them around 15 or 20 days would make the games quicker and not to drawn out.

cmulligan
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Post by cmulligan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:48 am

I'm concerned about time loss as well,just prepared to accept the risk if everyone else is.I understand your desire to make it fast but fun.Was just considering one alternative.How would something like 15 days +12hours (for example) work?I was thinking the +12hours wouldnt add too much time,but would allow someone on a fast day to build up an extra day or 2 for emegencies.

Feel free to openly critique this idea.I havent even finished a game here yet,so obviously you gents have way more experience than I,concerning how the time controls tend to play out.I freely admit I could be wrong due to ignorance of how things work out here in practice.

redketchuplover
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Post by redketchuplover » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:58 am

How about game in 90 or 120 days? or game in 60 days + 1 day up to 90 or 120 days? tia

energy
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My preferences

Post by energy » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:02 am

islanderfan wrote:Nils what would you like the time controls to be? I thought keeping them around 15 or 20 days would make the games quicker and not to drawn out.
You should know my preferences Brian. (7d+1d). I understand your concern about drawn out games, but I don't think we can have our cake and eat it too. No drawn out games means you can't be away much.
Nils

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islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:13 am

let's meet in the middle, 10d+7hr?

cmulligan
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Post by cmulligan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:46 am

islanderfan wrote:let's meet in the middle, 10d+7hr?
NO! How about 12.5d+9hr,25min & 36sec & thats my final offer...for now... :lol: Just kidding,of course.I'll work with whatever you all decide is best.

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:53 pm

newbies have no say lol :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: but now that your here Cliff moves up a notch :)

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Post by cliff » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:05 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:


May as well give some overdue input here, I try to be a "Move a day" player. Doesn't always work, but normally I keep no opponent waiting for more than two days, outside of (rare) extraordinary circumstances! That's why I try to keep my number of current games to 20ish or so, tops.

That being said, I'm comfortable with Nils' idea of 7d + 1d, but I realize many don't like things quite THAT fast, ao I'd like to put forward the notion of 15d + 1d.

Figure it this way: the "Template" norm on the "Challenge Page" is 30d + 2d, so why not just divide it in half?

Ergo: 15d + 1d?

(Have a few other ideas also, but I'll save them for a later post.)



:) :)

energy
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Let's just try this faster thing?

Post by energy » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:47 am

islanderfan wrote:let's meet in the middle, 10d+7hr?
I don't think 7+1d or even slower is in the spirit of the suggested team format. If we adjust Brian's compromise to 10d + 6hr, it means 40 moves is done in 20 days, so I vote for something like that. Just with the warning that if something happens during those 20 days, I might not be able to make my moves quickly enough.

But then, this is all for fun anyway. So let's just play in the Zapper spirit, and see what happens?
Nils

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iamachessstudent
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Post by iamachessstudent » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:29 am

I can agree with Nils and Brian on that time control, as long as WE are well aware of the dangers of running out of time in cane some real life incident occurs!
And of course, we all have reasons for posting or not posting and I respect all of them..I just looked back on the older forums and it seemed much, much more busy and more than enthusiastic on some topics,,BUT some time is better than no time :)

Good chess to all :)

Joshua

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:18 pm

mi and pawnraider are 2 more peeps that have entered. I think that is now 7 that are in? Have I missed someone?

cmulligan
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Post by cmulligan » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:50 pm

Think I've contributed all I can to the time control isuue...at least until we get to the threats & blackmail stage of the negotiations. lol :D

In regards to posting;well,I'm so shy I doubt you'll ever see me on the forums... :lol: Seriously,it can be nice to have active forums;on the other hand,I'll take quality over quantity any day.I've seen plenty of busy forums where most of the content is garbage.Rather see not much,but have it all be worth reading,than have to wade through filth,insults, racism, sexism, & all the other obnoxious,immature crap filling the web.

I would say anyone wanting more positive forum activity,taking a proactive stance would be the best way to try & get things more lively.Simply put,if you want activity,be active & hopefully folks will start to respond & post more themselves.No guarantees,but it's the best way to do things in my opinion.

In regards to chat during games.One aspect of correspondence style play I enjoy is the opportunity to get to know other people during the games. I do understand though that many folks may love the game & the slower style of play,without necessarily being as chatty as I am.My rule is to always greet my opponents,always show respect & courtesy & to let them know the opportunity to chat is there.If they then want to chat,we do.If not,we dont & I dont take it personally or try to read anything into.As I said,folks are allowed to love the game & enjoy playing it without having to be as talkative as I am.

Hope this wasnt seen as derailing the thread,just tossing my opinion in on the sub-topic.Looking forward to the Zapper,& looking forward to playing you all, both in & out of it...& ya BETTER chat or I'll track ya down & beat ya with a rubber hose...or rubber duck...or something to that efect... :lol:

cliff
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Post by cliff » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:00 pm

Wise sentiments by both of you regarding posting in the forum, and the time control aspects!

So, by my count, we have islanderfan, iamachessstudent, jvanmechelen, and cliff as the four captains.

In the draft pool, we have energy, redketchuplover, cmulligan, pwillows, johnrbrown, mi, and pawnraider. As Brian said, that's seven.

Invitations are being sent out to johnb, jsiebet, pumpkin, hgrayson, flyingtiger, and miodrag. killerwolf was too late for last years' Zapper, and was promised a spot this year. He'll also receive an invitation. That's another seven, and I figure that perhaps three or four of those will compete, giving us ten or eleven players in the pool.

If we really want five man teams, including the captains, we need 16 players to draft from. I'm beginning to wonder if we should just go with the captain and three players, for four man teams?

I submit the idea, and leave it for comment!


:shock:
Last edited by cliff on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:12 pm

if those 7 invites join. we will need 2 more to join. Since Dave chickened out need another lol :) I would like to have either 4 ,3 man teams(capt. included) or 4, 4 man teams(capt included).

The time controls will be 10d10hr if there are no objections.

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Post by cliff » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:20 pm

I can certainly live with the idea of four 4-man teams, captain included!

So we have seven, and really just need four more at the moment.

And 10d + 10hr? Sounds weird, but might be catchy! Why not?

Agreed, as far as I'm concerned.

:D

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Post by cmulligan » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:47 pm

This works for me.I'm easy...if you've already heard that about me,just bear in mind, I'm not cheap.... :lol:

Now,in regards to prizes.I don't get too worked up if its unimportant stuff like huge sums of cash,vehicles or all expense paid Hawaiian vacations.On the other hand,I better warn you now.If delicious baked goods are on the line I'm prepared to lie,cheat,steal & kill for the victory! I'll fire up the supercomputer & get my crack team of GM analysts on the phone in a heartbeat,for cookies,cake,pie or donuts...just so ya know...

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Zapper

Post by ecperreault » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:20 pm

I will be happy to play.
I was always the smallest kid jumping up and down screaming, "Pick Me!, Pick Me!' as all the others were being selected before me....
ECP

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Post by cmulligan » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:24 pm

Sorry man.You cant play.We already picked the tall kid next to you... 8)

islanderfan
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Post by islanderfan » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:54 pm

8 so far, if I can get 4 more, I can choose from the hat( it will be an islanders hat) who gets the first captains pick.
Just so there is no confusion, Myself,Josh,Cliff,and Jvan(forget the rest of the name) are the captains. Instead of picking "rounds" want to just have one round and then I randomly pick players, or do the round robin format?

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Post by cliff » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:10 pm

Johnb is is also, so we need three more. And the draft could be done pretty easily:

The first round selection order as a "lottery" - the order they're picked out of Brian's hat. The next three in ascending order of the captains' ratings, so it would be Brian, Jan, Josh, and myself.

I have an idea, and I can do the "Secretarial" part of it, if Brian would like, that could see the draft done in one day, maybe two.

I suggest that the four captains agree on one weekend in the next month, that's they have time to read and respond to FOUR emails, I could easily arrange to be here for at least two weekends in July, so I'm flexible. At the start, I'd send each captain an email with the pool players listed, and the data, such as ratings, names, etc.

Then four ROUND ONE, each captain submits a number of picks: Whoever selects first, submits ONE name, since he knows he's going to get it. The Captain picking second, submits an email with TWO picks on it. If the first has been chosen, he gets his second pick. The third picking captain submits THREE names, and the last picker submits FOUR names.

For instance: Let's say the captain's pick in order of: Jan, Cliff, Josh, Brian.

I send each a list of the available players, on whatever Friday night, which would be now:

cmulligan, ecperreault, energy, redketchuplover, johnb, pwillows, johnrbrown, mi, pawnraider, Tom*, Dick*, & Harry*.
(*Three currently unknown players)

I would mail this list, along with the players ratings, plus their names & country (if known).

Jan would submit ONE name, say Johnb, who he gets.

I would send in Johnb & Energy. Since Johnb is taken, I get Energy.

Josh would send in Energy, Johnb, & Johnrbrown. Since Johnb and Energy are taken, he gets Johnrbrown.

Brian sends in Energy, Johnrbrown, Tom*, & Pwillows. Since Energy & Johnrbrown are taken, he gets his third choice, Tom*.

That ends the first round with one email sent out by the "secretary, and only one email sent our by each captain.

I then send out the new list of players remaining to each captain for Round Two:

cmulligan, ecperreault, redketchuplover, pwillows, mi, pawnraider, Dick*, & Harry*.

I also let the captains know the current line-up of the teams.

For the second round, the selection order reverts to ratings order: Brian, Jan, Josh, myself.

Brian sends in his choice: Pwillows, and gets him.

Jan sends in Pwillows & Pawnraider, and gets Pawnraider.

Josh sends in Dick*, Pwillows, cmulligan, and Harry*, and gets his first choice Dick*.

I send in Dick*, Pwillows, Harry*, and Mi, and get Harry*.

Then the same continues in the third round, and fourth if there's 16 players. Unlikely, I think.

Well, how does that sound?

:?

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Post by islanderfan » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:00 pm

sounds like a plan to me! Nice idea Cliff!! Oh what are the other 3 captains team names?? I am thinking of the Key West Cougars for some odd reason! :lol: :lol:

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Post by cliff » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:20 pm

:shock:

Beats me! I figure I'll name mine after I see the make-up of the team. But good question! Josh? Jan?

:roll:
Last edited by cliff on Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamachessstudent
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Post by iamachessstudent » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:55 pm

Key West Cougars would be good if I lived in Key West:)
BUT I dont soooo

do any of the Team Captains have names yet??

I have ani dea and i will make it official soon :)

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Post by cliff » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:54 pm

Okay, Jsiebert has just joined. By my count we now have ten entries, plus the four captains.

Captains

cliff (2722) (Cliff - Canada)
iamachessstudent (2692) (Josh - USA)
jvanmechelen (2564) (Jan - Belgium)
islanderfan (1964) (Brian - USA)

Players

energy (2819) (Nils - Norway)
cmulligan (2394) (Chris - USA)
pawnraider (2337) (Paul- Germany)
johnrbrown (2305) (John Brown - Canada)
johnb (2284) (John White - Canada)
ecperreault (2253)
redketchuplover (2240) (USA)
mi (2217) (michel - France)
pwillows (2086) (Pete- Australia)
jsiebert (1765) (Judy - USA)

Does that sound about right? Am I missing anyone?


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:? :? :? 8)
Last edited by cliff on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

cmulligan
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:10 pm
Location: South Carolina

Post by cmulligan » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:12 pm

Ever able to contact Killerwolf,that you mentioned in an earlier post? If he missed the last one and was promised a spot in this one,I'd feel bad if we forgot him or didnt make every effort to get in touch.

islanderfan
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon May 14, 2001 10:56 pm

Post by islanderfan » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:59 am

the first overall pick goes tooooooooo really?? Seriously?? Cliff gets the 1st pick?? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot on that one. I demand a recount, I want to speak to the man who is charge!!!!

But serious lol the order is

1st Cliff
2nd Brian
3rd Jan
4th JohnB

What do we need 3 more peeps to enter? Where is Gmiller? Surprised he isn't in.

islanderfan
Posts: 880
Joined: Mon May 14, 2001 10:56 pm

Post by islanderfan » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:00 am

opps that should be Josh has number 4 sorry Josh! :oops: :oops:

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