Centaur status or not?

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herlocksholmes
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:53 am

Centaur status or not?

Post by herlocksholmes » Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:50 pm

Dear chessfriends,

As you all know I am quite vocal about the fact that the use of chess engines in correspondence chess is not illegal and that players who choose to use them should not be labelled as cheaters etc.

I understand and respect the view of those that say that engines should not be allowed.

What i propose should be done, and we will need the assistance of Greg Miller for this, is that those players who wish to use chess engines in their play on this site, be allowed to be identified as so called "Centaur" accounts. This can be done by placing "(Cent)" behind the handle of the particular player. That would clearly identify such a player to other players for purposes of games, matches etc and prevent the conflict that arise from time to time.

As you all know this is a practise followed by Chessbase on their site "Playchess" and could be put to good use here too.

Please vote and express your view :D

Mr Miller, if possible, kindly identify and register me as such.

Best regards,
Herlocksholmes

imreallylousy
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:10 pm

Post by imreallylousy » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:03 pm

Seems like a perfectly reasonable solution to me. I vote for it if it can be done. I, for one, would like to know what mechanized aides my opponent is using. As I have previously said, chess engines are fine for analysis but to use them to decide which move to make during the course of a game bothers me. I also think these engines probably do not greatly help the very accomplished players who already know or can figure out how best to proceed. For "patzers" such as this writer, however, the temptation to use chess engines for other than "analysis" purposes is high. I think it makes sense, as Herlocks so abtly states, to idenitfy those who are using the chess engines and those who do not. I like his idea. There is, however, one question remaining in my mind. How does one determine if the chess machine is being used for "analysis" purposes as opposed to coming up with the "best" move? It seems to me any kind of analysis, book or mechanical, should not take place in the course of game. Perhaps my position is unreasonable when we are taking about "slow chess" as opposed to tournament chess under the clock. In the scenario in which we play here, let's just identify those who use chess engines and let it go at that.

pawnder
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 1:36 pm

Post by pawnder » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:45 am

Anyone can input a move from a Prog at anytime, so its going to be trust, so I vote no. Reason being a Non Cent can play very well, Ive thought even may win against a "shill" inserting well anylyzed moves from Progs,who knows.. it's asking for more corruption.

The only other thing popular is speed chess,

One from late last night. Did win this one as white. I may have thought it was going to be another Genius/perfect player, and that makes you try to adjust.. I have a lot more saves to check out as they let you save games.. If you have time check it out. Limited creativity and there just isnt much time to find the better moves. Its casual.

Guest107027 - Guest107153
Friendly Game, 5m + 4s

1.e4 d5 2.exd5 e6 3.dxe6 Bxe6 4.d4 Bd6 5.Nf3 Qe7 6.Be2 Nc6 7.c3 Bc4 8.Be3 Bxe2 9.Qxe2 Nf6 10.0-0 0-0 11.Qd3 Rfe8 12.h3 Nh5 13.Bg5 Nf4 14.Qd2 Ne2+ 15.Kh1 Qe4 16.Be3 Nf4 17.Bxf4 Bxf4 18.Qd1 Qe2 19.Nbd2 Qxd1 20.Raxd1 Ne7 21.g3 Bd6 22.Nc4 Nf5 23.Nxd6 Nxd6 24.Rfe1 f6 25.Kg1 b6 26.Kf1 Kf7 27.Rxe8 Rxe8 28.b3 Ne4 29.Rd3 c6 30.c4 h6 31.d5 Nc5 32.Rd1 cxd5 33.Rxd5 Re7 34.Nd4 Re5 35.Rxe5 fxe5 36.Nc6 Nd3 37.Nxa7 Nc1 38.Nc8 Nxa2 39.Nxb6 Nc1 40.b4 Nd3 41.Nd5 Guest107153 abandonne 1-0
Last edited by pawnder on Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:48 am, edited 6 times in total.

kcollins
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:44 pm

name or not to name..... machines or human??

Post by kcollins » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:38 am

tks again for this topic to lousy and sherlock ) sry mean herlocks.... vote for the like to know please. as stated by the latter - this makes sense to this human :roll:

cleenders
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:15 am
Location: Amsterdam

Me, a Centaur?

Post by cleenders » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:34 pm

It is OK for herlockshome to express his understanding for an opinion that cannot be maintained on a site dedicated to correspondence chess. I dare to disagree with her recommendation. We analyze our chess positions on this site, that's the point of playing here. No Cent behind my name please.

xmate
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:57 am

Post by xmate » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:56 pm

I am in total agreeance with lousy on this subject. I play chess on this site because I wanted to play against humans. If I wanted to play a computer I would have bought a chess program and played that.

I think that those who want to use chess engines should be allowed, but should be identified so that those who do not want to play against a computer can choose not to play them.

Being identified as using a chess engine is not saying that the person is a cheat and is certainly not meant to be a stain on their character. It merely allows those who don't want to play against a computer the option not to.

gmiller
Site Admin
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Location: Jeffersonville, IN
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Post by gmiller » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:35 pm

I had considered a similar feature from the beginning, but scrapped the idea because I think most people just don't want to play against a computer. I think most of us already have a copy of Fritz or Chessmaster, or whatever that we can play against if we want.

Personally, I'm not against the idea, I just think most people would rather the feature didn't exist.
Greg Miller

virusthenun
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 11:36 am

Post by virusthenun » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:44 pm

So Greg,

Why don't we vote on the issue and see

mberggren
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:26 am

chess-engines

Post by mberggren » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:06 am

Well... I think it´s a great idea. And I can tell you all that playing chess with chess-engines against each other is big buisness nowadays. Just check out the PAL-tournament organized by chessbase. If I remeber correctly the first price in that tournament was 20 000 dollars.

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

chessengines!!!

Post by mic » Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:16 am

As you all know, I have always been of the opinion that if you are using a chess engine that is like getting an extension on a lock of your hair(so to speak)...So when one drives by in their hot sportscar...we can all say sorry about your HAIR!!!!
If it were up to me, herlockshomes (who plays correspondence chess in the nude...incase you all didn't know) and all his/her buddies could use chess engines and cheat their way into none thinking chess matches. I don't buy it that people are using chess engines on this site just to study positions...most of the players on this site are class B and below ....and admit it we aren't that good....although occasionally we have a brillancy...not in my case though...cause I play with my cloths on.

Uncle Mic :twisted: :?: :twisted: :lol:
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

virusthenun
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 11:36 am

Post by virusthenun » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:05 am

Dear Uncle Mic,
Have you tried playing chess in the nude? It’s fun !! :)
While you’re at it you might want to read “English for Dummiesâ€

delphifire
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:15 am

Re: Centaur status or not?

Post by delphifire » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:19 pm

[quote="herlocksholmes"]Dear chessfriends,


"As you all know I am quite vocal about the fact that the use of chess engines in correspondence chess is not illegal"

The only reason it's allowed: the rules couldn't be enforced in the serious game the players threw out the old honour/gentlemans code to play fair respected for centuries and that's the case in live chess online the players only want to win and collect points half the people I play live chess online use bots with rbyka demo that's slowed down it plays extremely strong game the bots play exactly the same openings and style and lines over and over again some of them give themselves away with the time they respond 0.0.1 seconds for like 40 or 25 moves come on if your playing that quickly you will make some mistake or miscalculation.

It's not the technology but the bad morals of players that have ruined the game.

danielmarcolino
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:34 pm

Post by danielmarcolino » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:35 pm

I think that it´s a great idea. When I play at Net-Chess, I want to play against a human, not a centaur. So, I think it´s a good idea to separate the players in these categories. By this, one can play a human tournament, a centaur tournament or a mixed tournament. In that way, I would not be forced to play against computers...

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

sherlock???or not to sherlock!!!!

Post by mic » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:03 am

if you are using the site for study of which most aren't then sure use your blanking computer aids....next time I will try to play in my g string.

uncle mic
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

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