chessbase advantages??!!!

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should we allow cheaters on this site?

yes?
11
58%
no?
8
42%
 
Total votes: 19

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

chessbase advantages??!!!

Post by mic » Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:29 am

Once again I am playing a player who is using a chessbase engine to figure out his/her moves. This players name is bschardein///
I was kind of wondering when I checked his USCF rating out at around 1300 and his site rating here is around 2600+....now that is truly cheating...he even admitted it to me....but you know what? I will beat him anyways. If you use this site to improve your games and mind as well as developing friendships that is right and just but to whose advantage is it to cheat using chessbase engines to figure out your moves? It is like saying you shot a 70 at a particular 18 hole golf course when you actually shot a 120!!!!! So I say, whom are you fooling cheaters???!@!!!!

Yours in Chess,
Mic

PS. I am still working on my tan at the pool side in Puerto Vallarta. :lol:
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

ghorn
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 6:13 pm
Location: Charlotte North Carolina

Cheaters

Post by ghorn » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:35 am

First you will never be able to keep cheaters off a site. They will just change their handle and be back. The cheating is their game, not chess. There is one thing that might help you avoid cheaters, play only challenge matches. I did see on one site that you could create a list of players that could not join matches you set up, but that may be why the site is gone now. Just play and enjoy.

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

effing cheaters

Post by mic » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:49 am

Ghorn:

I do play and enjoy...thats why I've played almost 1600 games on this site...it's just that cheaters suck and diminish what honest people are doing on this site.

thanks for responding.

Mic
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

jpettit
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2001 11:55 am

Post by jpettit » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:36 am

I play chess for one big reason: it's fun. Winning is a nice bonus. I sincerely hope that everyone who plays chess on this site, or any site, has fun doing it. Isn't that why we are all here: to make a few moves, push a few pawns, laugh equally at our brilliancy and our folly? If chess is not fun, then it is not worth playing.

For some people, winning is the most important element of chess. That is fine, it doesn't affect me or my enjoyment of this most Royal Game. By using a chess computer, they are doing what they want to do, and by enjoying every move and every conversation with my worth opponents, I am doing what I want to do. Be it against Uncle Harry or Deep Blue, I just want to play.

To each his own. If people feel better about cheating, then let them cheat. And if you don't want to play them, then don't. Let's just enjoy our common game. Let's keep celebrating our wins and mourning our loses. Above all, let's just have fun.

-- Jonathan

bobbybellona
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:16 am

Post by bobbybellona » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:47 am

If a player use a chessprogram to find the moves, we are really playing against that programs chessengine. The player who cheats is really just making the moves for the program. I really don't see how that can be any fun...

We who play against the chessengine, we get a good opponent, as his rating also will indicate. Same as playing against a human with good rating.

Also this isn't poker. No money involved. It is all just for fun here. And daily exercise for the brain.

So I don't care if someone cheats. Is only a problem if most players on a site do it. But most people have better things to do.

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

bobbylona

Post by mic » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:38 am

I guess I just feel that if you are using your brain not an artificial intelligence brain you get more out of it and improve your chess...but I really don't see how a USCF player with an OTB rating of 1300 is really learning using a chess base engine to figure out his moves. I wonder about all those guys and gals whose rating on this site is 3000 if they are cheating using a chessbase engine...have you ever played a 1300 player in a tournament...>??? it's like playing a beginner...so it gets back to my point...if you really enjoy chess dont cheat.

love,
mic

:P :P :D :shock: :o :lol: :idea: :idea:
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

cornstalk
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 1999 1:42 pm

Re: chessbase advantages??!!!

Post by cornstalk » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:23 pm

mic wrote:Once again I am playing a player who is using a chessbase engine to figure out his/her moves. This players name is bschardein///
I was kind of wondering when I checked his USCF rating out at around 1300 and his site rating here is around 2600+....now that is truly cheating...he even admitted it to me....but you know what? I will beat him anyways. If you use this site to improve your games and mind as well as developing friendships that is right and just but to whose advantage is it to cheat using chessbase engines to figure out your moves? It is like saying you shot a 70 at a particular 18 hole golf course when you actually shot a 120!!!!! So I say, whom are you fooling cheaters???!@!!!!

Yours in Chess,
Mic

PS. I am still working on my tan at the pool side in Puerto Vallarta. :lol:
Dear Mic,

This is perfectly legal in most correspondence chess venues. For example, the current World Correspndence Chess Champion, freely admits that he makes extensive use of Fritz 9. There is no way to prevent this in any case, so get used to it.

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

conrstalk

Post by mic » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:25 am

Hey Cornstalk:

I will never get used to it...it might make me a stronger player because I use my wee brain. That is the only good I get out of it. By the way, I have won more than I have lost on this site without the HGH(human growth hormone) of chessengines....when those idiots play OTB in a real tournament they will see that they cannot rely on their chess engines but their puny brains.

with respect,
Mic :evil: :evil: :idea: :roll: :oops:

herlocksholmes
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:53 am

Post by herlocksholmes » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:03 pm

Dear cornstalk,

Thank you very much for making the point.

You are perfectly correct when you say that it is not illegal to make use of a chess engine in correspondence play. In fact it is common practice and common knowledge amongst the international correspondence chess fraternity. Correspondence chess World champions make use of it, it's the rule, rather than the exception.

In this regard i refer our respected friend mic, to the website of the International Correspondence Chess Federation (ICCF) to be found at http://www.iccf.com.

Please also read the article in the ICCF's webzine (ICCF Amici issue 07), by Alte Gronn, to be found at

http://amici.iccf.com/issues/Issue_07/i ... art_1.html

The article speaks for itself.

To suggest that a correspondence chess player that uses a chessengine to assist with his analysis is "a cheater" and/or "an idiot", is not only misplaced and slanderous, but totally incorrect and un-called for.

Regards

Herlocksholmes

xmate
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:57 am

Post by xmate » Fri May 05, 2006 7:26 am

I do not usually reply to threads, however, I am confused with this one. The question posed is "Should we allow cheats on this site?" Most people have answered yes, why? I emphatically say no.

The opinion is that using a chess engine is not cheating, so why the huge response to allowing cheats on the site? Perhaps the question should have been, 'Should we allow people who use chess engines on this site?'

In my opinion I do not see how using an artificial intelligence to win a game can be satisfying. I agree with Emmanual Kant who said, "Have the courage to use your own intellect."

shammer
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:26 pm
Location: wilmington, nc

Post by shammer » Sat May 06, 2006 2:59 pm

i'm a bit confused. in another thread started by slowblunder, gmiller cited uscf rules stating that using computers for analysis is forbidden and that printed material is okay. which is it? i don't have a problem with it but i think the rules for this site should be clear.
it's been pointed out that there is no stopping this anyway and will work itself out in the ratings anyway so why not make it legit? mic, i would be pretty happy with myself if i beat a player who was computer assisted!
just out of curiosity, do the top guys on this site use chessengines regularly? if so, how heavily do you lean on the computer? are there any top players who don't use one at all? also, how can you tell that a computer is being used against you? just curious, shammer out

kpeters
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:33 pm

Post by kpeters » Tue May 09, 2006 7:51 am

one of the things that drew me to correspondence style chess is that i didnt have to play my games under the pressure of a clock. most of the places i checked out, prohibit the use of chess engines. opening books, endgame books, really any printed material is ok, but that seems to be changing. i have an easy enough time losing on my own, i dont need someone using a move generating computer to help. but what can be done about it? we can state that the use of computers is prohibited. (easy to say, hard to enforce) we can ban any player found using a computer (who has the time to look at every game? and even then how do u determine if one is using a computer?) i enjoy playing and enjoy the occasional win, but what is most satisfying is knowing in my heart that i did it on my own. the people who use the computers are only hurting themselves and if their ego needs stroking to the point that only a high rating can give them, then it would seem they have more serious issues at hand.

pepsiba
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:54 pm

Re: Poll results cheating.

Post by pepsiba » Tue May 09, 2006 12:28 pm

Hello,

I just want to comment that I think it's very sad that 75% of you approve of allowing, cheating if these guys want to play with their engines so badly why don't they create their own sight just for engine users where they go and pretend to be Anatoly Karpov or Vishy Anand all they want and leave the rest of us who want to play classic chess without any help or external assistance e.g. 'engines' alone in peace.

If you care about the game respect chess and your fellow classic players don't support cheating on this sight or any other keep the game clean.

parkejo
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:56 am

Post by parkejo » Tue May 09, 2006 8:55 pm

And I thought we wore out the "my opponent won't move/resign and he's in an obvious lost position" thread!

Maybe we could conjur up Senator McCarthy and he could have some hearings and we could develop some lists of suspected engine users. Or if you really really care and if it really really bothers you, offer matches that require a "no engine oath".

pepsiba
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:54 pm

Post by pepsiba » Wed May 10, 2006 8:21 pm

"wonder about all those guys and gals whose rating on this site is 3000"


3000+ rating is Gary Kasparov territory who are they kidding? 3000-3500 it's obviously a computer are we going to belive that some kid in his basement is alot stronger than every Gm on earth? and not only is he better than all of them he's 500 points ahead of the greatest chess player who ever lived!

LOL.

gmiller
Site Admin
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 1999 11:13 am
Location: Jeffersonville, IN
Contact:

Post by gmiller » Thu May 11, 2006 9:43 am

shammer wrote:i'm a bit confused. in another thread started by slowblunder, gmiller cited uscf rules stating that using computers for analysis is forbidden and that printed material is okay. which is it?
What I said before still stands: no chess engines are allowed.
Greg Miller

shammer
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:26 pm
Location: wilmington, nc

Post by shammer » Thu May 11, 2006 11:04 pm

thanks greg. my confusion was caused not by what you had said but by the statements by cornstalk and herlocksholmes that chess programs are par for the course in correspondence chess. guys, i don't question what you said but i wanted the rules for this site to be clear...for the easily confused and everyone else. you both are way ahead of me so i thought i was missing something.
greg, you do a fine job of making this an enjoyable site.
thanks again, shammer
p.s pepsiba, the ratings here are independent of the uscf and fide ratings. our ratings are calculated within our pool of players and are somewhat inflated compared to uscf/fide.

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

chess engine cheaters!~

Post by mic » Sun May 14, 2006 9:44 am

Cheating Chess Players Many chess players dont always take the rules too seriously,reports the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. One example is an amateur player who won against a grand master. Later, however, it was discovered that hidden under his long hair were a microphone, earphones, and a camera, for communicating with a chess player at a computer in another room. Others have been known to go to the toilet, close the door, and pull out a hand-held computer to calculate their next moves. On-line players can also be devious. Some run a chess program on their computer while participating in an on-line game. In other cases players participated under two names and played against themselves one name always losing and thereby pushing the other up in the ranking list.For many it is not so much a question of prize money, states the newspaper. In almost every case, the motivating factor is, not greed, but vanity.

I think integrity is the real issue....listen dudes and dudettes, I love this site. G. Miller has done a marvelous job of maintaining and listening to us beeeyatch about stuff. It has provided me with alot of comfort, fun, and new friends....it just grates me that people do not have enough confidence in their own intellect to figure things out on their own. But hey, who said the world has to be fair. So bring it on cheaters challenge me with your chess engines...I will look up stuff in my outstanding chess library.
PS. Some great sense of humor out their in your responses.

:P
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

pawnder
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 1:36 pm

chessbase advantages??!!!

Post by pawnder » Mon May 15, 2006 12:42 am

Ive just stopped a Chess Champion, re-killed a Travel Champion, and defeated Muldoon character in the Chessmaster game/10 or close to that by myself.. Id say that here I have a hundred times more time, So I may be using my ideas with a blunder check.. I am 46 so why would I take a chance on missing a move in a contest like this? Hell, by now , I could have played the position extensively with some friends and anylized it too!!Therefore, I insist an engine helps to get this(show on the road) I hope you can get your level up to at least play me. Sincerely, Pawnder

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

pawnder!!??

Post by mic » Mon May 15, 2006 3:49 am

My OTB rating is higher than yours will ever be....and thats with my own brain. soooo, if it's size that matters well maybe everbody would be a steven hawkins as you are.

Mic
:roll: :idea:
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

herlocksholmes
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:53 am

Post by herlocksholmes » Mon May 15, 2006 3:53 pm

Dear mic,

It is clear where you stand on the issue.

I however feel that praise should be given where it is due and in your case you should be complimented for being able to currently play 114 (if i counted correctly) games at the same time on this site allone.

With my puny little brain I would never be able to manage such a work load, let alone be able to play at any respectable level as you are clearly able to do. How do you manage it ?! Do you ever sleep?

On a more serious note.

As is clear from my previous posts under different strings, I once again wish to stress that as far as I am concerned a chess engine is only an assistive device in the correspondence player's armoury, same as your books and library. The player should use his own brain and should not simply allow the engine to play the game, and the player then simply following the suggested moves blindly! That is a sure recipy for disaster.

Please be so kind and read the article by Simon Hradecky ICCF AMICI Issue 05, to be found at:

http://amici.iccf.com/issues/issue_05/i ... gines.html

As far as I am concerned the Correspondence Chess Player has nothing to fear from chess engines. Some bright spark said "if it does not kill you, it makes you stonger".

Regards

Herlocksholmes

bschardein
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:55 pm

Post by bschardein » Mon May 15, 2006 11:32 pm

Mic,

It's clear you didn't understand my comments to you, so let me clarify.

I do NOT use a chess engine when playing my games.

I DO use a rather large opening database when starting my games as is allowed by every set of rules for correspondance chess with which I am familiar.

To reiterate, not an engine, but a database of actual games that have been played.

Additionally, when you seemed to object to this, I voluntarily forewent the use of my database and played using USCF OTB rules in our games.

herlocksholmes
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:53 am

Post by herlocksholmes » Tue May 16, 2006 12:47 pm

Dear bshardein,

Please don't loose any sleep about it. Obviously you are correct in your view.

There is nothing wrong or illegal in using a database of games in correspondence chess, and that goes for any stage of the game !!

You are however totally silly if you were to use OTB rules in correspondence chess. Please don't tell me you apply the touch move rule in correspondence play !!

I would expect mic to apply it though :)

Or let me rather suggest this,( and this is just between you and I..ok)..... touch the pieces, just don't tell mic you touched them :)

Regards

Herlocksholmes

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

please touch me again!!1

Post by mic » Sun May 21, 2006 6:12 am

Hey, Serlock bones:

How many times do I have to touch the piece to where I have to wear glasses????

Mic :twisted: :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol:
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

mateau
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:34 pm

chess engines and cheaters

Post by mateau » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:11 pm

If you don't want to play cheaters then play on Playchess.com. That is the site that chessbase maintains and they monitor game play for cheaters.

Furthermore, written materials are allowed in Correspondence Chess but not the use of Chess engines and computers. It's a matter of honor as all cheating is really. Those who cheat just don't get that, those who defend cheating or surrender to it also do not get that.

Playing on-line, especially a correspondence format site like this, is apt to be rife with cheating. A real time site such as PlayChess.com presents a little more difficulty. From what I've learned from e-mail s from a chessbase programmer, the monitoring capability is very sophisitcated and it does work.

And some one who has played over 3000 games with out a loss is either remarkable or has nothing better to do with his time than to live vicariously with his computer. Or maybe it's Bobby Fischer!

herlocksholmes
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:53 am

Post by herlocksholmes » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:42 pm

........yawn..........zzzzzzzzzzz

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

signor mateau!!!

Post by mic » Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:06 am

We know all the arguments, I try not to play the chess engine players but, I agree it's ok and proper to look things up if you have the resources like a nice opening books with limited errors in it. My entire point is this: my brain or, your ego????? What give more satisfaction? Hopefully we humans won't speed towards the year 2525; if man is still alive....Ok bones correct my english now....
Mic :D :?: :?:
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

mic
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:31 pm

signor mateau!!!

Post by mic » Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:07 am

We know all the arguments, I try not to play the chess engine players but, I agree it's ok and proper to look things up if you have the resources like a nice opening books with limited errors in it. My entire point is this: my brain or, your ego????? What give more satisfaction? Hopefully we humans won't speed towards the year 2525; if man is still alive....Ok bones correct my english now....
Mic :D :?: :?:
enjoyed chess for thirty years...have lots of books and mags but never time to study. Maybe when I retire...chess strength has gone done ratings are unrealistic

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